The MetaMask Metal Card Is Here

Welcome to Stabilized Live. How are you? This is amazing. Thank you. Well, Liz, it's great to see you. It's I'm excited to catch up and hear about the new role that you're in, all the exciting stuff that you're doing. This this conversation specifically, we're actually here in the Arculus HQ right now where the MetaMask card was created. Tell us a little bit about that card program and where it fits within everything that MetaMask does. I know MetaMask is doing so many things under the consensus brand.

Frame where that card fits within everything that you're doing, because I know there are many pieces to this. Yeah. I think that card was one of the most exciting products that we launched. I mean, actually happened last year. Right? We started with specific geographies. There's always regulations are harder to go through when you're moving tokens into real life spendable assets. Right?

But, like, just think about it, how incredible is the fact that years ago, nobody would have thought of the possibility of having self custody of your own assets and have a a debit card that is linked to it. Right? So I think that was very disruptive and very innovative, and the team has been working on this for so many years. So now the the cooperation that we have with Actulus, it's more about the metal card. Then, of course, we always work with those partners for every product that we launch.

And with them, within The US, we launched a couple of weeks ago. So now everyone can access to can order their metal card. Anybody can get also a virtual one, but, of course, like, the metal one is gonna give you more benefits. So let's say, like, up to 3% cashback, and they have, like, these spreads with flagger, then all of these are, like, fun things that you can do with a regular card. Right? So I think that's, like, just so fun that, actually, sometimes you realize. Right?

There's not anymore this abstract concept of, like, oh, I have these assets in my wallet, but it's only for trading or it's only for, you know, dual DeFi. So I think that's super exciting. I can go online now. Card launched just two weeks ago, it sounds like. It's only a couple of 10. Here in The US, it's it's very recent. We opened the order for for it. What when you think about the user base, those who are using these cards, virtual or or physical,

what are you learning about these users, you know, given given the role that MetaMask has played? I know historically, MetaMask is such a has been and is still such an incredible, like, very DeFi forward, Web three crypto native forward company that it's empowered so much of this early adoption. Are are you seeing that the users of of this product or these cards are still in that kind of user group, or or is it becoming a little bit more diverse? How would you bucket the core user of these cards right now?

So I think it's a little bit of everything.

And I you know me. We worked before it, so I am a big pusher into what it means self custody, but also just providing access to users that otherwise wouldn't have a way. Right? So, I think in The US, we have a really good user base that is more willing to pay a premium if you get, like, benefits, etcetera. I think outside of The US, regions like LatAm are people who are actually in the need of this. Right?

And and sometimes they are actually looking for ways to how to spend their their tokens because the off ramps in these regions are really complicated for them and are really costly. So it's just like an easy way for a user just to tap and don't have to care about that. I need to convert it into my local currency, and then I'm losing this much. And what is gonna happen? And and it's like providing a solution for these users outside of The US that, otherwise, they wouldn't have. Right?

And and outside of The US, you can tell that there is much more need also for self custody solutions, even though ramps and centralized exchanges play a huge part on that. But the user is getting really more sophisticated. Right? Sometimes behind everything that has happened in the past with exchanges, people lost the trust in having their assets in, like, some custody entity. MetaMat car is literally you are your own bank, but not only that.

Now, like, not only MetaMat's wallet is providing you the opportunity to with your own bank, but now with the car, you actually can use those assets, right, in the in real life. So so today on the show, we are

we're kinda getting an interesting taste of the spectrum of these different cards. Like, we have Coinbase coming on, EtherFi, Carda is another emerging card player here in the space, and then MetaMask. When I think about how all of these different, these, all of these programs look and feel different, the way that they're built are different, the products and services that they're embedded within are a little different.

What do think makes the MetaMask card and the approach that this that that you're taking over there at Consensus, what what makes this card unique in your view? What what does that look like in your in your mind? It's really self custody. It's the first

self custody in debit card in reality. Any other card have had some sort of custody attached to it where you have to have an account on an exchange or you know, like, there is always that piece. And I think that for users that are also a little bit more sophisticated, we have spend all tokens like DeFi tokens. I'm not sure if all of the cards have that.

But if you are sophisticated enough on DeFi, what you can do is that you can go into Aave and do probably convert your debit card into almost a credit card because you can't just, like, put your Ethereum collateral on Aave and then go back to your card and spend in the Aave issued USDC. That's also an example of the tricks that you can do. So I think it's way more flexible too, in terms of, well, we have integrated many networks.

So we have Linea was our first network that we integrated because of the throughput and and all of the requirements that you need from a network to have, like, payments processing because that's also not that easy. And we have just went gone live last year in November, I think, around DevConnect with Base, Solana. So it's very flexible also. Right? It doesn't, like, make you only have this specific type of asset. And an interesting product that we just launched, the second half of, last year was the MetaMask USD.

That is our stablecoin that is issued in partnership with Mzero. And we we are thinking about it as the that is going to help to put everything together, everything that we have. Right? So, like, there are so many amazing things about the card that I cannot stop. But on top of that, we have a delegation framework. So it protects the user to actually, like, oh, like, I like, a regular form. Do you remember that you have, like, that you say, I only want from this account.

We spend the maximum 200 and send me a notification. In our delegation framework, we have the user choosing how much they want to put in that cloud. So that protects you too if someone else, for whatever reason, got access to your information.

And if they did a big purchase, then, like, it's gonna be blocked. Right? Because if if it's an amount, then it's higher than Yeah.

There's so many unique aspects to how you bring the on chain self custodial nature of something like this into a practical program that's actually what what what seems so interesting to me about this specifically in the work here with the Composecure team and Arculus team is this, like, you know, top of we've we've kind of been using this term like top of wallet, where the user behavior of of using something like a physical card is something that, you know, people people have been doing even before crypto was a thing.

It's a learned behavior. It's something that they they don't need to rethink this. They don't need to go get a browser extension or download an app or do anything. It can really drive volumes. What are you seeing just specifically on this? Because I think, you know, self custodial the self custodial nature to what you've said is so key. If you're able to kind of peel back the layers here, what's actually happening when I tap this card?

So if I'm, you know, I've downloaded this app, I get this metal card, I have it in my wallet, I go to, you know, buy a new pair of shoes, Am I signing a transaction in that moment? Like, walk us through a little bit what's what's happening

on chain there. Yeah. Basically, you're, in theory, signing a transaction. So there is a lot of, like, in fact, sort of partners underneath. We work with a couple of them. We currently have this partnership with Mastercard. So we kinda start with that. Right? Like, it has to force the merchant. It has to be in their network of merchants. Then when you submit a payment, there there is an actual account that is created for you when you signed up with the KYC. It's a very light KYC. Right?

It's not, like, the type of crazy credit check because it's not, a credit card, but there is a an account that is created. So what happens underneath is that your token is going to be converted in the in the local currency, but they take care of everything else. Right? They take care of that conversion and make it, like, compatible with your bank account that is created for you, but you don't need visibility to anything of that. Yeah. Yeah. I know for you personally, just this idea of providing access

to the mark markets all over the world internationally and bringing financial services into a lot of these more emerging economies is something that I know for you is personally really you feel that really personally. What has it been like from your vantage point to see either the work at Coinbase or or now MetaMask? Like, speak a little bit more macro on the role that things like Stablecoins or things like Stablecoin enabled cards.

How is that why is that so powerful for different parts of different parts of the world for for our mostly US based American audience who might be listening right now. What what do we need to know about this and why it's so important? Finally. It only took me four or five questions.

I saw oh my god. I'm from a third world country. I live in Tennessee, like Colombia, Brazil. So when I come to The US, I realized that, actually, you can't buy the point. You can't, like, have a account easily. You can't open a brokerage account easily. I think that whilst you are, like, nearly The US, you take for granted all of the privileges that we have because then we don't have issues anymore. Right?

So, like, it's not like, oh, your currency is devaluing a 100% every single day, and then, like, there is no way to catch up with inflation. And then, you know, like, there's just very little visibility. I'm thankful you will think this sounds like a movie because you wanna say that happens in an actual real place.

That's the same people with, like, just really, like, a bunch of paper, like, bills paper because the currency is not worth anything anymore, and and it's, like, a bunch of, like, bags of of piece of paper. It's all over the place. It's like, so nobody uses it. And then if you are buying a piece of plant today, it's gonna be three times more expensive tomorrow, literally. So I think, like, there are just so many unknowns for us when we have that privilege.

And then just seeing that finally, Vale, we are looking more seriously into it. We are paying more attention to these regions. There is an opportunity for business. I mean, it's not about not making business, of course, but the opportunity has to be approached in a way that makes sense also for those regions. It's not just, okay. I have a call because I'm just gonna start to promote it because because whatever.

And especially when it comes to financial products because these communities have been hit with so many lies, have been robbed and stolen so much that there has to be a component of trust that is incredibly high for you to be to be able to kind of, like, break the wall and, like, to get their trust is little by little, but it's really, like you know, it's compounding. Like, once you start to grow like, Newmark, I don't know if you guys know the story of Newmark. But Newmark. Yep. Yeah.

Like, they started in Brazil, and the founder is actually from Colombia. And nobody heard here about Neovanc that much, but even Warren Buffett was in the first rounds of investment for this bank. And, well, they went public and, like, they have just, like, the majority of accounts in Neowank. And the majority now probably is still in market share when it comes to crypto and, like, offering a Bitcoin and a couple of other assets that they have now available.

So, anyway, for me, it's close to my heart and to my palm, and I am just happy that finally we are understanding that there is a big opportunity there, and it's actually where people need it. Right? It's not just for a fantasy thing. It's because there is an actual need. Yeah. When we were catching you up last week talking about this interview and, you know, catching up a little bit, something that really stuck out to me was the playbook

for go to market that might look different in different parts of the world, specifically in parts of Latin America. And you had some really interesting thoughts on that. And I just wanted to revisit that a little bit here. Like, for a lot of brands who might be based in The US or or trying to reach products like the MetaMask card or stablecoin enabled infrastructure cards applications. There's a neobank boom going on right now. I think a lot of companies are trying with good good intentions to reach new markets,

but they're not from those markets and they don't actually know how to resonate deeply. Speak a little bit to what you've what you've seen be effective in some of these specific markets that you've I know you've when you were at Coinbase, you were you were going into new markets like this. What have you learned about how to reach new markets in Latin America effectively? What works there that may not work elsewhere? This is actually a bit kind coincidence because I was just checking some post from someone yesterday.

The CEO of El Dorado is a fintech that is based out of LatAm. How he explained that the friction into the go to market and the penetration of these products in LatAm is not about the technology. It's not, oh, the technology is really hard. It's more about the trust. Right? So he went to the same point of, like, you know, you can come here and say a lot of beautiful things, but nobody believes there because it's really hard.

So what I have noticed is that local companies are usually, like, you know, gaining way more traction than when sometimes another company from outside of the country or the region comes with the same specific it can be just the same. Right? It it can be just it doesn't have a competitive advantage as Some is price sensitive for sure, but it's still right? Some people are willing to pay the $2 more if they trust more that specific brand or product.

So what I noticed is that is and I mentioned it, it's not a matter of just translation. That is not the issue that these companies are facing, but it's a cultural it's a lack of cultural understanding. And you have to study a culture that you want to go to and promote. Right? So so it's it's complicated when when a company wants to penetrate the market where they don't even know what the needs are.

Like, you know, if you want to do a remittances program, but you have never done a remittance in your life, you have no idea what the friction no. But I saw it. I mean, like, that's what I say because I am like, Jesus Christ, how this thing happened? But yeah.

Yeah. When you when you've gone through something personally in any in any area of life, if if you've gone through that, if you have felt that, that's something that is a felt experience, you're gonna be in a even if it's just like being a better friend to someone, like, you're gonna be in a better position if you've gone through that and you know what that feels like. What you you mentioned new banks, so let's just take them for example. I agree.

They seem to have something that no one else does, like a kind of a lightning in a bottle effect of how they're growing and they're growing so fast. Whether it's them or others, like what are some specific examples of like how they might operate locally in Brazil or things that they're doing really well? Is it as simple as, hey, we're just our leadership, our personnel, the people building the companies are they're Brazilian.

Is it is it as simple as that, or are there things that are actually tactically different about how they present themselves or really build trust? It sounds like you keep going back to trust here. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think it's mostly about that. So Newmark,

they decided to choose intentionally, Brazil as their first, you know, headquarters and expansion. And the reason for that was because at the time, the regulation was actually more friendly than any other country, and the opportunity was also way bigger. Right? Like, the founder of the company always tells the story about he having so many issues into trying to open a bank account himself when he was in Brazil for some time. And, and just like seeing that everyone had the same issue and the same problems.

And then out of that, I guess, trying to, solve that problem, then when it comes to go to market, they did a lot of word-of-mouth. That is something that we, in The US, I don't say that I would practice as much for when we go to market. It's it's not easy. It's it's costly because it requires a lot of time. It's not just putting an ad in a billboard. Right? So word-of-mouth was actually our biggest and most important strategy.

And then they were you know, when you trust someone and they you receive that back in some way, and they started very interestingly, like, doing, like, micronomes and just, like, in order to start to advance with that and just testing. So it was giving the user some sort of record until, oh, this person actually pays on time, so we now can give bigger loan. It was very interesting everything that they did. Now Brazil have the fixed payment system that is more like everything digital.

So it helps a lot also for the type of neo banking infrastructure that is needed in order to operate and and easier for users to kind of ramp onto that. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Because things like stablecoins,

which is, as you know, a huge focus of our show, these aren't American products. I mean, these are these are US dollar mostly today, US dollar, you know, backed infrastructure. But these are things that, you know, you could you could make the argument that the majority of non Americans appreciate, you know, more than anyone else in the world is like the dollar access that things like stablecoins are giving to them.

It is an interesting tension of how do we how do we help educate and equip companies who are well intentioned to bring these products to new markets and do so in a way that's actually resonant, effective, impactful, and what is I guess, as we as we sort of round here and and close out, what does that look like for the go to market on the BD side for the MetaMask card? Kind of bringing bringing it back to this. So like, what are some things that the market can expect?

What are some things forward looking that you hope to bring with that card program taking into account some of these key beliefs you have around how to do growth well? Yeah. I I think our company is very product led in,

you know, in general because that's how we grew. Like, MetaMask wallet, it's a product, and you grew on its own. It's not like, oh, like, it needed that traditional type of go to market approach at the very beginning, I will say. Well, it became a product that went viral, basically, because it was the only wallet that that was at the beginning for an Ethereum assets. Yep.

I think now with the different products that we are launching, the team has done incredible job in terms of marketing and how we approach the the regions. We are gonna see more probably in other regions too, like more countries come in stone, in The Middle East. We are depending with some countries, but I cannot say that much here. But we are, at this moment, really just trying to focus on expansion in terms of where is data viable, and we are going to be focusing on specific campaigns tied to that. Right?

But MetaMask card more than just being a product on its own, I think it's also just like it's everything. Right? It's Metamask wallet in in USD, and it's Metamask card. And that kind of synergy is what works ultimately

because for the user, the best advantage is that I don't have to leave my wallet because I can do everything I need with my wallet. Right? I think that's the ultimate goal. Yep. 100%. So what where do I go now if I'm Oh, yeah. But How do I Don't go. Yeah. What do I what do I do to get this card down? Is this within the MetaMask app? Is this a separate thing? What does that look like? What are the next steps for people who are like, I'll give that a go. Yeah. That's amazing.

There is a one inside that is metamask.io/card.

But, anyway, in meramezk.io is our main site. It's gonna take you to the card if you want to. I have created my card such a long time ago, so, like, I cannot even remember very well how to go through them all because I already have it there. Yeah. I'm sure. Was, like, literally, I was testing it last year at the very beginning, so I created it, like, a year, more than a year ago. So yeah. But but it's really easy. I I think the KYC that sometimes people don't love is the super light one. Right?

And and it's it's it's gonna give you a lot of benefits ultimately. Like, I I learned from the rest people here also. Like, I wanna talk about Daniel Lynch that was the pioneer in everything that has to do with card. He really started all of this product that was not easy at all, and he was our banking guy. So he knew everything about financial and this product. Shout out, Daniel. Shout out to Daniel. But now he's gone. Everybody's still close to stealing his family. So Yeah. Daniel is onto

a new role at Ave. He's gone, but not far away. I guess we'll say that. Well, still like the key here. Well, Liz, thank you for this. No. I appreciate you know, have you on again. We you know, we're we're here. I'm getting some pings from some people who are are like, are you in a kitchen right now, Drew? Where are you right now? Ask if you're asking that question, I am not in a kitchen. I am in the Acampo Secure facility where the MetaMask card is being manufactured. It's being cooked. It's being etched.

Your name is going on it. Behind me, there are people working on these cards, not just for MetaMask, but 95 plus percent roughly of all of the metal cards around the world that are being created are done so by the team here in New Jersey at Compostecure. So we're here today doing the show. Liz, thanks for joining us. We'll we'll talk soon, Liz. Thank you.