# Pat Capulong, three years designing at Lightspark, demos six working apps inside payment docs

Stabledash Live, a Stabledash show. Sep 16, 2026. Griffin Camper.
https://live.stabledash.com/shows/the-live-show/episodes/lightspark-built-six-working-apps-inside-its-payment-docs-RA_06komB-Y

Lightspark is betting that design and care for the developer experience can set a payments infrastructure company apart when competitors all tell the same story.

Pat Capulong has been doing design at Lightspark for three years, and his latest work sits inside the company's payment documentation: a version of iOS rebuilt for the web with six apps running on top of it. He presented it alongside Griffin Camper, who joined as Product Marketing Lead a couple of months ago.

## Zagging on design

Griffin Camper says that on every other payments infrastructure and financial services site, "you see the same story," with many companies using the same graphics and the same identity. His answer for Lightspark was to ask "when everyone's zigging, how do we zag" and to go deep into its roots as a design forward company. He describes his own role as the connective tissue across departments, turning technical jargon into something easy and digestible.

The company also dropped its internal product names. Griffin Camper says it was easier to talk about payments, accounts, cards, and DeFi and trading as categories.

## Apps inside the docs

In the Lightspark Global Accounts Playground, Pat Capulong says the team rebuilt iOS for the web "super one to one," because imperfect demos break the immersion. All the flows are complete across the six apps. Griffin Camper says the team at a16z sent a note calling them the best docs they had ever seen.

A second tool, Build Your Flow, lets users pick a source and destination currency, such as USD to BRL, see how money moves through Lightspark, and get the code needed to run it.

## Money from A to B

Griffin Camper calls Bitcoin "the invisible engine" but says the method matters less than moving money with no friction, the highest deliverability and the lowest cost. Whether the customer is an enterprise or a developer who wants to go live in three to five days, he says the docs should let them serve end users right away.

## Care over AI output

Pat Capulong argues that people can tell when a human cared about every pixel and animation transition, and that this builds trust. Griffin Camper adds that Lightspark gives customers launching payments its playbook, design elements and UX best practices.

Lightspark is presenting its docs and brand as part of the product it sells, not as an extra. Griffin Camper says the team will take that story on a roadshow and hopes to fit in strategic announcements for some milestones along the way.

## Key takeaways

1. Pat Capulong, who has designed at Lightspark for three years, showed a rebuilt iOS for the web with six fully working apps inside the company's documentation.
2. Griffin Camper says payments infrastructure sites tell the same story with the same graphics, so Lightspark chose to lean on its roots as a design forward company.
3. Lightspark describes itself as rail-agnostic, with Bitcoin as the invisible engine, and aims to let customers go live in three to five days.

## Chapters

- 0:00 Lightspark's product marketing lead and designer introduce their roles
- 1:26 Lightspark chose design over the look every payments site shares
- 4:45 Products regrouped into payments, accounts, cards, and trading categories
- 6:59 Global accounts playground shows the end user experience inside docs
- 14:03 Build Your Flow tool shows money routes and generates code
- 16:08 Human care for every pixel builds trust in AI era
- 19:43 Hosts and guests compare approaches to building lasting brands
- 23:14 Lightspark heads to three fall conferences with planned announcements

## Transcript

**Griffin Camper** (0:00)

The new core for the next era of finance.

**Host** (0:09)

Alright. We got Light Spark joining. And apparently, a podcast booth, this does look very nice. How are how are you guys doing? Been awesome setup. Good. We're good. We're actually... Well, long story short, we're gonna be in the podcast room, but this is David's office, which is also a podcast room. So this is door number two. Yeah. Okay. The light behind you is very, very nice. Guys, thanks for coming on. We're excited to just to have some time with you.

There's a lot of new things that you guys have been shipping in recent weeks. We can catch up on that. Maybe we start with both of both of the mandates that you guys have at LightSpark, and we'll go from there. Cool. I'll jump in. I was lucky enough to join

**Griffin Camper** (0:46)

a couple months ago, and I've been working pretty closely with Pat. And my role is kind of like the connective tissue across all the departments and kind of like distilling all the technical jargon, all the product, and all the tech into something easy and digestible.

**Pat Capulong** (1:03)

And so being product marketing across all of our services and how we show up and then collabing very deeply on the design side of the pet. Yeah. That's good. I mean, I've been doing design at Lightspark for three years now. Yeah. Work work on all of our services, marketing, brand, product, dev x. So so you're you're almost like a translator, Griffin, I imagine. Like, you have to translate all this, like, deep technical

**Host** (1:26)

knowledge and say, hey, Pat. Here's how we start... We need to bring it to life with this brand, especially with this kinda... This new identity. Because, Pat, you've kinda got to see Lightspark through these different iterations through this positioning. So maybe maybe bring us into that moment is, like, how do you approach a task like this? This new website looks great. Yeah. But even how do you even think through positioning LightSpar and and doing that translation,

**Griffin Camper** (1:50)

so to speak, Griffin? Before I hand the the mic over to Pat because, you know, he was he was the architect of this and the the master chef, I I was like the sous chef. I had the ingredients, and my goal was to figure out how do we get them in the kitchen and and build the best dish. And and, ultimately, if you go to every other payments infrastructure, financial services site, you see the same story. And unfortunately, for better or for worse, you know, there isn't a better way to describe money movement. Right?

And so there's that piece of it, which is a lot of people telling the same story with the same graphics and the same identity a lot of the time. And the other side is companies using AI driven tools to build their brand, launching their site from the same toolkits, people backed by the same companies. So because that's West, I think our approach was, like, when everyone's zigging, how do we zag and go deep and go deep into our roots as a design forward company? So with that, I'll I'll I'll hand the mic to Pat. Yeah.

I could talk about, like, our graphic approach and and visual approach of how we, like, stand out. Can I actually share? Yeah, please. I'm trying to be thoughtful

**Host** (2:56)

with... Just because typically, we we built the studio in how we share things where everybody's head is its own block. So we'll we'll try our best. Actually, I'll just go back to that same I'll go back to that same view. But echo echo what you guys were saying. It it is... From our vantage point, we're covering a lot of these companies, and they start to really look the same. And you almost just wanna, like, you know, shake people by the shoulders.

Like, you guys are not going to win this game of musical chairs by looking and feeling and sounding like the exact same version. Love this thinking where you said it was like perfect analogy, and of course, we're stable dash. Okay. This is your screen, I believe. Yeah. There we go. Can you maybe just zoom in to maybe two or three just a little bit? Yeah. Or why not? Okay. How about that? Okay. Alright. Alright.

**Pat Capulong** (3:44)

Yeah. Okay. I mean, so so the look is, like, feathered nature photography, and then we have glass UI on top, And it's paired with, like, super hard Swiss graphic design and layout. And, like, with this with this hero, it's, like, it's, like, pretty interactive and and fun, but it shows, like, the breadth and the depth of of our offering. But it's just, like, one huge, like, moment of swag with with hits of color up top, and then it becomes, like, a lot more restrained at the bottom here.

And, like, I think I could talk about, like, the the content strategy here too. It's just like simple headline. It's really short, brief description, then, like, a manifesto real quick of what we do and some stats. And then it's like, what do we do? And so we list all of our product capabilities here. We have global accounts and payments, all of these here. And then we have proof points, like who we're trusted by, who do we what companies do we serve, and then just ways to get started. Yeah.

When when you guys were thinking about... I might be jumping the gun here, so please tell me if I am. The idea of, like, positioning and who you want to be associated

**Host** (4:45)

with and the kind of use cases you want to represent kind of the future of Lightspark, where y'all are going. Maybe speak a little bit to to some of these examples or things that you decided to put front and center. Yeah. I would say previously,

**Griffin Camper** (4:58)

we had kind of internal naming, really cool brand identity in all branches of our three core products. But, ultimately, we decided it was easier to talk about payments, accounts, and cards, and DeFi and trading as kind of like our categories. And then within those kind of... Those products and those use cases and that being easier, and, obviously, it's important from a a CEO and SEM perspective to have to have that front and center as well.

But there's there's a specific choice to to have those and and make sure that we wanna be known for those things. And and I think that was maybe from a a brand awareness thing prior is we've been getting to this point where we're about to rocket, where we're trying to figure out what is the right entree product, the right appetizer product to get people in.

And, ultimately, if global accounts, which is the all encompassing product is the entree payments and accounts and cards and and DeFi and trading as our way to get people onboarded quickly, three to five days, use our products, build trust, and kinda dive in. Drew, What what does that look like? I mean... Yeah. And I especially think about going back to that that kinda old versus new, that position. Like, where where do people start? Where how...

Where where did this conversation start to evolve, and and what is that zero to one moment, like, with Lightsmart? To to that introductory, I have think of what Ryan said in our last segment of of replatforming, of the evolution of payments, you know, using using stablecoins for this next generation. So maybe this is a good segue here to walk through walk through this this product. Yeah.

I'll I'll have I'll have Pat obviously do the walk through, but from my perspective, you know, my mandate coming in was that Bitcoin is is definitely the, you know, the invisible engine running for us, but it it doesn't really matter. People are are less care about the way in which money moves. I think we're taking the agnostic approach to it. Right? Like, we wanna get money from point a to point b without any friction, with the highest deliverability, and the the cheapest way to get there.

So, you know, in some ways, the best routes are invisible, and that's kinda how we approach it.

**Host** (6:59)

Trying to make this as best as possible, but I really love this user experience, especially as someone who's leaning more nontechnical. It's cool to see what feels kind of like an API docs, you know, environment start to feel more productized. And I love I love how you're really almost doing what you would do in like a case study part of the website, actually just in a product experience. Speak a little bit to this. This looks really cool. Yeah. Thanks. I mean, we... Yeah. We had a blast building this thing.

And it lives in the docs, but I think, like, something that is underexplored

**Pat Capulong** (7:29)

is, like... Well, you you go to docs and, like, you read up and you have to study or you feed it to your agent and, like, it gives you a summary or something. But, like, not a lot of docs will show you what the end user experience is, and that's, like, pretty important for a b to b, like, payments info company like us. And we also put, like, a ton of care and attention and polish into this experience, like, mainly...

Or, like, for the love of the game, but also to just demonstrate that, like, design is fundamental to Lightsport. And hopefully, shows the quality and care that we put into everything we ship, and including the the DevX. You want me to go to the

**Host** (8:07)

the demo? Yeah. Feel free. I saw I saw you're you're sharing this beautiful... Yeah. There we go. That's great.

**Pat Capulong** (8:13)

Is that big enough? That's perfect. Okay. Yeah. And so, basically, this lets you, like, create a global account and lets you visualize, like, super instantly what it would look like if you use Lightsparks tech in your product and gave, like, all your users, like, a global dollar account, basically. And so we rebuilt, like, iOS for web. It's, like, super one to one. Like, a lot of companies make demos that, you know, they're not, like, super perfect, and I think it, like, breaks the immersion a bit.

So we went the extra mile to, like, make sure that everything, like, feels super native. And then... So we built iOS on web, and then we built, like, six apps on top of it. Like, all of these are, like, fully... Like, all the flows are, like, complete on all of them. Like, we have we have these crazy, like, animations for all of them. There's obviously an XTube,

**Host** (8:56)

but let's call you And I was just saying, I I I have a question in this in this route right here. I love this thing, like, the fintech, social, on demand creator marketplaces and messaging. Which one of these right now feel underutilized? Like, I think we're seeing in neobanks, there's a lot of fintechs. Right? We're seeing more and more marketplaces, but, you know, we're thinking through even in some of our our neobanking focused segments, like, like, what is a bank?

How do these embedded finance applications come to life? And I think we're talking to a lot of builders, and it's like, yes. We wanna power what everybody else is doing, but also we're building infrastructure for the things that maybe people haven't imagined yet or that right now feel more like fantasy. Like, which one of these do you want to see somebody really take and run with? I would say, I mean, it's a

**Griffin Camper** (9:41)

it's a broad question because we do... I mean, that's a direct question, but I think broadly, like, we we don't wanna say no to too many folks right now because our our stack allows us to get many different industries and sectors live.

I would say, obviously, a fintech or or p two p are your normal use cases, but your your your creator platforms, your marketplaces, your on demand platforms are great examples of folks whose end users need to get paid, and they wanna get paid in in in dollars and stablecoins ultimately. And the old way in which a creator, for example, was paid was was definitely broken. And so from from our use case, if every...

If if seven years ago, every software company was gonna offer financial services, well, now every every one of these companies has financial services in their stack. Now they wanna offer some level of of global accounts to their customers. And so our goal is to kinda meet them where they are and do it in the most friction way possible. Yeah. We were we were talk...

A lot of this episode or this this show so far has been discussing the emergence or the embeddedness of these places that people are already living, they're already using their exist... Their existing distribution for non financial use cases, we're starting to see so many different implementations

**Host** (10:55)

of fintech in places that you would never at least historically imagine, but make a ton of sense because people are already living there, They're engaging there. They they want to exist in that environment. So it's really cool.

**Griffin Camper** (11:08)

I love I love this type of experience. Very unique. And and I think one thing to add, ultimately, like, our goal is to be kind of invisible and build that b to b infra, but it it has to touch the end users in a seamless way. And, ultimately, our platform partners, care about good NPS. They care about loyalty. They care about retention and multiproduct adoption.

So for us, our goal is to build the best way so they can build a moat around their customers, give them money in the fastest means possible, and retain them on platform. And that's why the... There's such a careful approach with this this global accounts playground and and showing those use cases. You know, we we got a really nice note from the team at a sixteen z saying this was the best docs they've ever seen.

And so for us, what we're really trying to do right now is lean into, you know, our our our core customers. And whether that's an enterprise or a developer that wants to go live in three to five days, the goal is to have these docs be, you know, an amazing, you know, frictionless experience for them so they can service their end users right away. And that's kind of what we're trying to do is reduce all those pain points before.

Instead of weeks, it's days, and and have those customer relationships and those conversations be super direct. So not only are our customers helping us guide our road map, but we're in deep in trying to solve those pain points. That's awesome. Anything else from this experience? So

**Host** (12:28)

go down the the rewards tab. If if nothing on this page jumping on, I was I was peeking that. I was peeking that on the side. Rewards have been brought up, I think, three or four times, I think, this this stream already. So I'd actually be interested diving down that one a bit, how how you think about rewards and even how your customers are thinking thinking through rewards. I think, you know, previously,

**Griffin Camper** (12:49)

as it relates to global accounts, treasury, all those things, there was a bit of leakage before. So I think our... With global accounts and just in general, when it comes to FX and yield and interchange and all those things, you kinda had to pay the toll every time. And so in this way, we wanna have global accounts be the way in which we can have a platform, offer rewards to their customers to keep them on platform, and and continue to drive good p... NPS and retention. How's that happening right now?

Is that is that through Bitcoin? I see that, like, that's kind of the centerfold, and this kinda feels like a a callback to,

**Host** (13:22)

oh, you know, OG Lightspark with the with the Lightning Network and, like you mentioned earlier, with Bitcoin being at the center, is that just one mechanism, or do you see this expanding into... Know, we... We've talked about experiences.

**Host** (13:34)

We've seen what Rain is doing with Up Top. Like I said, what are other ways that we think think through rewards and right now and and kind of that customer retention? Comments? Or No. Yeah. I I think we'll we'll just say BTC for today. But, yeah, there's there's more. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Drew, I'll hand it off to you. Yeah. Pat, any... I know that, you know, we're looking we're looking at this this on the back end, and there's so many different columns and categories here. Anything else?

I mean, in in generally, the site... The... This part of the site that you just want to

**Pat Capulong** (14:03)

give flowers to that you're that you're stoked about? I mean, yeah. Like, the the global accounts playground is like... We're super proud of that. There's also like a build your flow Popping. Build your flow. Like, you could just pick your source and destination. Like, I wanna move I wanna move I wanna move USD to BRL. And then that's like a preset, but you can pick, like, whatever currency you want. And it kind of just illustrates, like, how money will move through LightSpark.

And so it's a good way to, like, just wrap your head around, like, how our API works. And then it also gives you, like, all the code that you need to run, like, to make this happen. And so that was, like, our first, like, interactive piece of the docs, and then we really built on top of that with global accounts. What's it been like seeing people engage with this so far? Oh, it's been dope. I mean, like... Yeah. Yeah.

It's been really cool for for people to to use our stuff and and and just be, like, impressive, and and kinda call out the craft, because, like, we care about that a lot. I also wanna give give shout out to, like, the other designers that I've stood on the shoulders of. Like, a lot of the animations and transitions that we use in the playground, like, comes from Benjie Taylor and Most Fools Engineering from their family app. I don't know if you've used it. But It's called family? Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if they support it anymore, but it's like... It was like one of the best wallets that's ever been designed. Woah. Neobank kind of platform? I think they did ETH stuff. Okay. Like, crypto native? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's it's what's It's really cool how, like, there's something so

**Host** (15:34)

simple about this. Right? But the the the balance of, like, elegance and simplicity and doesn't really look like you're doing too much here, but even with the fun flow and visualizing what's being used, what what are the hops involved here, just kind of knowing that that's something that someone would care about or or... And then choosing to visualize it in this kind of simple, sophisticated way. It's really cool.

It kind of reminds me of the the the closest thing that comes to mind is the Apple, like the experience of using an Apple product where it's just like extremely simply delightful.

**Host** (16:08)

Yeah. Lot of inspo there. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks so much. I mean I mean, Pat, I'd be just curious from your perspective, like, in this age of AI and to Griffin's comments earlier of all these apps and design, like, feeling very similar. It's not it's hard because it's not that... Like, bad is, I don't think, the right word, but there's a just a lack of differentiation, a lack of taste. What do you think that does from a from a customer perspective, from a developer perspective when they...

When you're, you know, established in that relationship early on and they're coming to start using their docs? I mean... And and where do you where where do you even start with this right now in in the age of AI? Like,

**Host** (16:45)

I'm thinking through

**Host** (16:46)

In terms of brand, you mean? Yeah. And from from a brand perspective, when you're talking to somebody that... You know, I imagine if I'm building a neobank and I want to work... Who do I wanna work with? Well, working with a team that has a beautiful developer experience, that has a beautiful design and brand, I imagine there's a lot I can learn from there. What would you say to people building with the app when they're saying... When when they are thinking through building these experiences,

**Pat Capulong** (17:08)

building a u... You know, user flow, and build... And even starting to build a brand from day one in in this era right now? Like, where should their attention and focus be? You think? You're talking about, like... You're asking for advice from, like, if if somebody's trying to, like Yeah. If you were to speak to another designer, another Yeah. Somebody, you know, another developer that was using LightSport to build build on top of? And how do they make sure that they don't end up in this in this sea of sameness?

Yeah. Like, okay. So what what a partner's trying to, like, integrate It took me a minute too. I was like, I think Yeah. I know. I'm there now. Long winded end. That was a long winded end. I was I was I was going there along the process. And, yeah, how do you break out in the sea of the sameness as you're building fintech embedded finance applications? Yeah. I mean, what... You you gotta study what's out there and then find out, like, what's unique. And then you don't wanna be different just for the sake of it.

It has to be different and good. And, like, I think there's a trust factor also with, if you just ship, like, the first pass of, like, AI generated stuff. Like, I feel like on a deep level, like, people can tell. And people can tell when, like, a human actually cared about, like, every every pixel and every animation transition. And I feel like that stuff, like, builds trust. And so people were gonna use Lightspark, like, use our API to build, like, money flows and experiences and stuff. Yeah. Like, you...

You're set up to use AI, like, with our docs. Like, it's easily ingestible. We have a CLI. It's, like, super easy to build, and that's, like, some of our stories of people, like, going live in in a couple days. But, like, on the user facing side, on the interfacing and and experience side, you have to, like, take the care and attention to, like, kinda deslop what AI produces,

**Griffin Camper** (18:43)

basically. You gotta put the human touch because I I feel like people can feel it. Yeah. And also too, one thing we have a really heavy hand in is helping our customers build these experiences. Like, let's say a company's gonna offer payments for the first time. Right?

Well, they're gonna wanna use our playbook and a lot of our design elements and our our our UX and our our UI kinda know how and best practices to kinda, you know, show show the right nudges, have the right features in the right places because it's an awareness thing to start. Right? You're you're you're you're showing, hey. We offer this new this new awesome financial product. Well, here's why it's valuable to you. Here's the benefit, and now you're gonna use it.

Well, there's a lot of education that goes into it and getting them into using that interface. That's always the goal. How does that experience feel? Frictionless provide a lot of strategy there. So to tie it back, it's like, you know, from an infrastructure company, we we spend a lot of time on those touch points so our customers can be successful with their end users. It's sort of the difference in my mind between a business like Shopify,

**Host** (19:43)

which is probably very modular as you go up market, but on the bottom layer, it looks like a single thing from the outside. Like, oh, this is a place that I, you know, sell online. But it really is like an accumulation of all these different pieces design choices and connection... Connective points that look like a single thing, but they've just built it so well that it that it's it's starting with the end in mind of, like, what's trying to be accomplished?

How can we remove all of the things that stand in the way from, like, a... Even a design standpoint? I personally have not seen anyone, like, in this layer of the of infrastructure be able to think a couple steps ahead about we don't just wanna offer capabilities here for, like, moving money or or moving from point a to point b. It's like people wanna build products. How can we help them do that in this way? And design and and pairing design with some of this is really interesting.

Haven't seen that before, and I I love that approach personally.

**Griffin Camper** (20:41)

Yeah. Especially because most most stuff out there is pretty sloppy. Yeah. And this conversation isn't about all the products since... We're not like going to some sales pitch. We're just talking about experiences. I think that's what we... And like with StableTash two, you look at the space. Right? There's the the world has a lot of mics these days. Right? And you guys have a a really nice brand. It it it... There's synergy between us. Like, when Pat and I were were vetting this, oh, man.

This feels like a brand we would... Light Spark would fit well on. Right? So to the other side, like, when you guys were choosing your brand identity and developing the brand, like, what elements went into it? Because I I imagine you wanted to to stand out, be different, and have a design for a company too. Right? In some ways, it's... Yeah. I mean, I could talk about this for hours.

**Host** (21:24)

No. I mean, eating a can of worms right now. Just

**Host** (21:28)

gonna sit back and listen. I mean, ultimately, it's it's the the... As you guys know, like, it's the most important thing at the end of the day. It's what you say no to just as much as what you say yes to. And I don't know. I mean, I've... Personally, I've been in this space for so long, and maybe similar to an approach that you guys have taken with how you build the the docs on the back end. Like, you've probably seen so many approaches with that done poorly. We have seen...

And being being professionals in finance or working in crypto professionally, like, so many attempts at this media thing and so many landmines exist. And so we we really wanted to take the long term approach, not get caught up in this hype cycle, care about brand, not... Like, we... Zach and I talk a lot about, like, do you wanna be timely or timeless? Like, which side are you on?

And we wanna build things that last, and I think the brand and and creating even the product experience that you guys are are using right now, like being able to share your screen and, like, do this, like... We've really tried to make this thing almost product... A product in and of itself. So, yeah, it's been fun, and we we feel the same way about you guys. Yeah. So that's StableDash Live, little little public love fest going on between Lidespark and StableDash.

**Griffin Camper** (22:39)

You heard it here first. One more kudos is what... Even, you know, my question was when we were jumping into the the green room was, you know, was... Did you guys build this software internally to someone else's? And so I I can tell there's a lot of thought put into all these touch points, so kudos. Kudos. Yeah. You guys are good. Thanks, guys. The brand is insane. Let's go. You haven't even you haven't even seen our our sound effects yet.

**Host** (23:01)

Wait. Here. Wait. It's for the for the big guys. So should we should we send them off? Making it rain. BCC? Okay. I was doing the big horn rain.

**Pat Capulong** (23:13)

Oh, yeah.

**Host** (23:14)

You guys you guys are are awesome. Any final words as we kind of think about the future of... I mean, there's so much to cover with you guys. Like, what would be the final maybe introduction introduction as you guys end the year and what you guys are thinking through? Yeah. I would say if you wanna see us in person on the road,

**Griffin Camper** (23:31)

we're gonna be... Have... We have three speaking engagements at the the big three shows to end the year. So we'll be at StableCon here in September, and and David's speaking, and Alex from our team is also hosting an event. We also have money twenty twenty coming in October, and David is also speaking, and Davi's speaking. And we'll have an experience there for some of our VIP customers. And then lastly, we're gonna have Davi and then our CPO, and then Christina, our our VP as well.

She's gonna be speaking at Fintech NerdCon. So I think we're gonna be out there on the on the road doing some roadshow storytelling, which is really exciting, and we're hoping we can weave in some strategic announcements in between there for some milestones and

**Host** (24:14)

highlight some Are you guys still doing the

**Griffin Camper** (24:17)

LightSpark event? Grid... Is it called... What was it called? Was it called Grid? Sync? No. No. No longer doing sync from what I know. Okay. I mean, that was such a beautiful... The last couple years you guys did that, such a beautiful production, but I can imagine not not cheap either. Yeah. I think it wanna be, you know, from an awareness standpoint, we want people to know our story, and we wanna be out there across surfaces consistently and be on the road a lot too.

And I think you'll see us beating up on our chest a little more, but we're not the type of people that just post to post. I think we're really intentional with every post and and and how we kinda show up across surfaces. So Absolutely. Awesome. Cool. Good to meet you guys. Awesome. Appreciate the time. Bye. See you.