# Ethena Pay launches with daily rewards of 5% to 6% on digital dollar balances Stabledash Live, a Stabledash show. Sep 30, 2026. Lito Coen. https://live.stabledash.com/shows/the-live-show/episodes/ethena-pay-launched-why-ethena-built-its-own-money-app-for-BQ6WbvuWfDc Ethena is building its own consumer money app so it owns its users instead of renting distribution, and its GTM lead calls it a crypto wallet on hard mode. Ethena Labs has launched Ethena Pay, a mobile app for saving, spending and sending money that pays daily rewards on digital dollar balances. Lito Coen, who joined as GTM lead six months ago, says the rewards currently range from 5% to 6% and start as soon as money is deposited. ## What the app does "No extra step," Lito Coen says of Ethena Pay: once money is in the app, it earns daily rewards. He says fiat deposits come in one to one, with no FX and zero fees, which he calls the best onramp from fiat into digital dollars. The app launched with a virtual card, and physical cards are planned for later. Coen says it was the team's biggest product launch in terms of virality, and the problem now is too much demand. ## A wallet on hard mode Lito Coen describes a crypto neobank as everything a crypto wallet is, plus integrated virtual bank accounts and cards. "It's incredibly complex," he says, pointing to vendor integrations, mobile development, design and compliance. He says Ethena Labs has a team of five or six people auditing its code bases internally around the clock. ## Owning the user The plan, according to Lito Coen, is for Ethena Labs to own a larger share of the crypto-native user pool rather than renting distribution. He says the company never lost money in major crypto incidents and has distributed over $750 million in rewards to holders of USDe. He credits founder Guy with the company's rise to $15 billion of assets under management. ## Who comes first Lito Coen thinks Ethena Pay could easily reach 500,000 to a million users from crypto natives alone. Next come digital nomads and people in countries with high inflation. He says Asia has strong demand for fiat rails, so the team is enabling fiat bank transfers from several Asian countries. He has already onboarded people who had never used crypto, with no hiccups at sign-up. Lito Coen expects competition from Ethena Labs, EtherFi and potentially Plasma to make it hard for smaller startups to compete. In his view, the company's scale and track record give it room to build where smaller players cannot, and what counts is consistent effort over many years, because "that's what compounds." ## Key takeaways 1. Ethena Pay pays daily rewards of 5% to 6% on deposits with no extra step, and adds zero-fee fiat onramps, a virtual card and peer-to-peer transfers. 2. Ethena Labs built the app to own a crypto-native user base rather than rent distribution, drawing on over $750 million in rewards paid to USDe holders. 3. Lito Coen says the time when a small startup could launch a neobank is probably already over, because the work takes more capital than many believe. ## Chapters - 0:00 Crypto neobanks are much harder to build than they look - 2:07 Viral launch created more demand than the team could onboard - 4:27 Ethena Pay offers rewards, zero-fee onramps, cards and transfers - 7:43 Ethena built its own app to own its user base - 11:38 Target users run from crypto natives to high-inflation economies - 17:02 Local problems differ by country, including demand for Asian fiat rails - 19:52 Early investor Lito joined to work with Guy on the neobank - 21:53 Window for small startup neobanks is closing - 25:34 Generational founders show stamina and a complete skill set ## Transcript **Lito Coen** (0:00) The new core for the next era of finance. **Zach Fowler** (0:10) We're super excited to jump into Athena. I guess my my first question actually is, so it sounds like you got to launch, you know, Athena Pay with kind of the team in person. It sound... From what I understand about the team, globally distributed, you know, very DeFi native in that sense, building everywhere. **Lito Coen** (0:26) What was it like to see this product come to life, you know, with the team in person? Yeah. It was amazing. It was really amazing. Yeah. And it had been, like, a long time coming. We... We've been working on it for almost a year. Joined, like, six months ago. So, yeah, it took us a while. It's much harder than people ex... Like, expect. I I see a lot of takes on Twitter saying, you know, not about us specifically, but just in general that these crypto neo banks are, you know, just a rain wrapper or something, and I think this is very far from the truth. It's incredibly complex. You know, there's a lot of vendor integrations involved. Mobile app development is not easy. Design, compliance, and so on. So... Was was pretty hard. You can think of it as actually, you know, a nonconservative neobank is actually everything that a crypto wallet is, like, you know, Rabbi MetaMask and so on, but just Yeah. Harder to build because it also obstructs a lot of way. And so no one would say, like, building a crypto wallet is easy. Right? But this is a crypto wallet with... On top, you have, like, integrated virtual bank accounts, cards, and so on. So it's actually like a crypto wallet on on hard mode. And so it took us it took us ages for a long time at least. And and then it kind of just lined up perfectly that we we... Like, we're having offsets quite regularly anyway, and then the dates line just up perfectly that we had the off-site, and and we were ready for launch. And so we kind of together in in in in person. And it was amazing because, you know, the the the reception has been really, like, incredible, supportive, and we, yeah, certainly didn't expect that much hype. So when you obviously... Not nobody's in the space, but... Yeah. And so we we knew this wouldn't go completely unnoticed when when we launched this, but the, yeah, the the the response has... Yeah. I think it has been our, like, biggest product launch in terms of, like, virality and and Yeah. This man for the product that that we've seen. So right now, we have... Actually, the problem that we have too much demand for, like, the beauty of the product, which is a good problem to have. But Yeah. It's like it's like who do you start with? How do you start, you know, this... I've... We've kinda seen this with a few launches too. It's like, okay. It's great. This goes viral. Have a massive wait list. Now I can't let everybody on, and now you have kinda some people you're of seeing them on Twitter. Let me in. Let me in. It's like, sorry. Sorry, guys. You know, what is that what is that kind of triage actually looking like, Leo? Like, know, you have this wait list. You're leading go to market. What do you do with it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's it's super hard to say no to people who wanna use your product. You know? You you really wanna let everyone in, and everyone has a good reason, you know, pitches you in in the end why why they're a good user and why they wanna use it. So how do we prioritize? I mean, like, a, we're we're not available in in all jurisdictions at the moment. So so that, like, you know, narrows down the the amount of users that we can onboard today. But then, yeah, we we, you you know, we we had this mechanism whereby certain people that were early users and have, like, audiences on Twitter could distribute this skip the waitlist codes to to allow, yeah, people to just kind of get instant access to the app. And and so that's that's been the the dominant way to to get early access. And then, you know, now we we have the wait list. And in the next couple of weeks, we're gonna onboard people from from the wait list just based on, like, whether they're in the supported jurisdictions. And... Yeah. So so there's a bit of, like, this randomness on on the side of the people who are on the waitlist, then there's also... We continue to get access to, like, people in our network and **Zach Hughes** (4:27) like, cables. And for the user who is accepted, who is getting onboarded, what is getting unlocked for them? What are they experiencing when they get into this ecosystem and into this product? What are you enabling? **Lito Coen** (4:39) Yeah. Yeah. So in a nutshell, it's just like a mobile app that allows you to save, spend, and earn. Sorry. Save, spend, and and send globally. So these are, like, I think, the the core actions that you expect from from a, you know, financial app. And to get... To go more into detail, like, on the safe side, you basically get instant daily rewards on your digital dollar balance the moment you deposit money into the app. That's quite a neat differentiating features from both, like, existing crypto neobanks, but also legacy banks where most often you have to move money into a DeFi world on the crypto neobank side or, like, into, like, a, like, savings account in a legacy banks, you know, where you typically then have to, like, lock up your funds for a certain duration and so on to get to get yield. And even if you get that... Even if you lock up your funds, you get, like, a quite low nominal yield because banks are greedy. And so with with with us, it's like, really, you deposit money into the app. No extra step. The moment it's in, you earn daily rewards on your on your balance, and that ranges today from, like, five to 6%. And then on top of that, you unlock these virtual accounts that allow you to deposit fiat, you know, USD, euros, GBP, and and soon more currencies into the app from your bank account. And that happens without any transaction fees, so it's it's it's one to one. There's no FX. There's no... There's... There's just zero fees. So it's it's the best on ramp, I believe, from, like, fiat into into digital dollars. And then the last piece is that you get a card. Today, that's a virtual card. Later, we're we're gonna have physical cards as well. But so it's a virtual card that you can use for ecommerce or, like, add it to your Apple Pay wallet. And then you can, yeah, spend, obviously. So it's it's kind of like a way, yeah, to do... You know, if you if you earn on chain, save on chain, and so on, you can, like... You never have to kind of, like, offer a money. You can just spend in Yeah. Yeah. For... Do it, like, your everyday purchases with with your with your crypto card. And so, yeah, there you get you get crypto cashback on your... On on every transaction, which is, yeah, the the highest in the market. So it's it's pretty attractive. **Zach Fowler** (7:15) And then Please don't me Yeah. Oh. **Lito Coen** (7:18) Go ahead. I'll get the The last piece is obviously also, like, yeah, crypto peer to peer transfers, but that goes without saying. So you can just send very easily to another Athena user via, like, a handle username that's instant gas obstructed, super easy to use, and then, like, you know, like using Venmo or something for you guys in The US, and and then, obviously, also to, like, an external crypto wallet on any chain. I don't wanna dig in to more of the, like, this inception **Zach Fowler** (7:50) and and going back. I know this is a little bit before you joined the team, but I imagine they had to sell you on this vision of, hey. Why why not go and just embed, you know, USCE, this world class crypto native savings product, into all the neobanks, you know, that we've seen popping up left and right. We've heard this this saying as well. You'll... People may trade where they bank, but they might not bank where they trade. I think we've definitely seen this vision kinda come to life too with Fantom, and kinda like you said, the crypto wallet on hard mode. Crypto wallets have enabled some of these banking esque features, but Mhmm. People may not have... They haven't been really sticky. You know? They... Those aren't those aren't what people use. They may still have a Fantom wallet and they go use something as their more banking experience. And so I'd really like to understand kind of the team's the team's thoughts behind, hey. Why do we wanna own this part of the stack? Is it like we wanna control more of our destiny and the experiences that our users have? Is it still, like, kind of an either or where people... You know, banking apps still could integrate USDE and then, hey. We're just... This is a different part of our product for people who want this very specific experience and already trust us. Because I think there's a lot of people in the crypto native community that have... You know, they've used USDE as their savings account for the past, you know, two or three years. It's just been in whatever wallet they're already using. So how do... How... What was the inspiration inspiration behind, hey. I think we should go do this ourselves? **Lito Coen** (9:17) Yeah. I think it it was several pieces. On the one hand side, I believe that exactly like you said, you know, we had a certain brand that we built over, you know, operating over almost three years in in in the space, weathering, you know, the hottest storms in in... That the crypto space has ever seen, you know, from, like, Bybit hack to, you know, Aave hack and and Yeah. I can't remember that that huge liquidation event. What was the name of the name of **Zach Fowler** (9:51) name of that I don't think we wanna remember them. We know they have, But we Exactly. Exactly. Don't want to think about **Lito Coen** (9:58) But so so Athena has really, like, you know, never lost money in any of the... Those events. You know, we've distributed over $750,000,000 in rewards to the the holders of of USE. And so I think, yeah, we've gained a lot of, like, goodwill within the crypto space. And unlike some people say... Like, I don't think that that segment of users is so small. Right? I I think there's a pool of crypto native users that we basically could... You know, if if we had a product like like Xenopay, like, we would be able to sort of upsell them to to using our product directly in a in a pretty easy way. And and then... But then the second piece is... So, like, the first piece is, you know, owning a larger share of, like, the the crypto native user pool rather than sort of renting distribution. Kind of, yeah, own it more directly. And then the second piece is have a product with a form factor that's, like like, good enough to to... For for mainstream users to adopt, like, these noncustodial rails. And so, like, tapping into a a potentially much larger pool of users beyond, yeah, the current set of of crypto users. So these... The... Like, in the in the first time period, we we believe we're more gonna tap into that first pool of users and then with the potential to tap into a much larger pool of users, you know, in in the medium and long term. **Zach Fowler** (11:38) Yeah. What what characteristics would you start to look for from, like, a go to market perspective in this new wave of users? I think we we think about this a lot and, you know, how how... Maybe compared to two or three years ago, what's the experience of somebody coming on chain, or, you know, what is that entry level? It used to be, you know, we saw the wave where it was powered by Solana meme coins. Now it feels like a lot of people may be getting started with FOMO or Robinhood Chain. Mhmm. How do you think about positioning, like, who we're building Athena for outside of the crypto natives? Is this like the the 20 year old guy out of college that is, you know, watching the World Series of poker and trading on FOMO, or is or is this a very, you know, different type of user? **Lito Coen** (12:23) It's a good question. I mean, I believe... So I've... You know, as just a... For... As an exercise, I've already onboarded people in my network that had never used crypto before. And even with the current UX of the app, you know, for the first time, it was really... I was really able, to onboard these people without, you know, any questions, no hiccups in the sign up process, no, you know, what is this? What what what is this? What is gas? Like, none none of these questions because we've obstructed it all away. But what is USD, ECT? You know, none of that. It's just like like signing up for another fintech app where they deposit money from their bank account into the app and then, you know, have a card and start, you know, start earning rewards and all of these things. So the the the learning curve with this with this product for the first time is, like, very, very quick. And, you know, for just just a little piece of of background on myself, like, I've been in crypto for nine years now. I came into this space really with the the the vision and and mission to onboard people to, yeah, crypto... On chain crypto, noncustodial rails. And, you know, I I created a website called cryptotesters.com where I was comparing different crypto wallets and, you know, ranking them for usability and so on because I wanted to make it easy for newcomers to, like, onboard. And and so... And I've done millions of meetups and and Zoom calls where I was onboarding normies, you know, and and and showing them how to use Kublin. Like, it was it was really chewing glass because it was up until really now, today, it was it was it was just way too hard. Right? And that... That's why, like, kind of, to look look at DeFi TVL and so... Yeah. I mean, this website hasn't been updated in in, like, four, five years now. But but, yeah, this was this was the early mission. And, yeah, nowadays nowadays, the the the product UX is good enough. And and so I think beyond the the pool of, like, yeah, crypto native users who, you know, farm on chain, are, like, you know, trading perps on chain and so on, which, again, I think is is is quite big. And I think we could easily go to, like, you know, 500,000 to a million users just in... With that pool of users, which, you know, would make us into a pretty significant neobank already just just just by that measure. But then I... I'm pretty bullish on, you know, a second circle... Con... Yeah. Concentric circle of users who are more like, you know, digital nomads. You know? All all of these guys who travel the world, like, try to save on taxes and live in Bali and and, you know, what... Whatever, like, you know, Thailand and Mexico and and just, like, live on the Internet pretty much. Right? And and and earn on the Internet and so on. And I've... Let... Then I think, like, the whole sector of users who live in countries with high inflation and are underserved by their current current, like, financial apps and and and also are subject to capital controls and so on. I think that's a pretty interesting market. So they want digital dollar access. They want they want, you know, they want to earn rewards on the on the digital dollars, then they want to potentially access tokenized stocks and and, you know, credit against these stocks and assets that they have. So I think all of all of... And and if you look at that segment, right, like, that is a huge segment. I think people in the West often, you know, only view, like, Europe and The US and may... Maybe, like, some up and coming countries in Asia that have, like, Western status, you know, but then yeah. I think Central Asia is hugely up and coming, like Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, all of these countries where... Like, LatAm, huge. Turkey, there's there's there's a... There's so many countries with huge populations and and growing economies, and I... Personally, that... That's what I'm most passionate about. Yeah. **Zach Fowler** (16:44) It's funny. You're not the first person on the show to bring up Kazakhstan, surprisingly. My friend David, they've been doing some work over there and especially bringing their their local local local currency. They actually created a debt instrument to then bring it on chain. Super cool story if you haven't seen that that interview. **Zach Hughes** (17:02) Zach Hughes, you're muted. Yeah. Exactly. Thanks. I was I was just saying, all these places, all these various economies, I love the different kind of subsectors you're pointing out from the digital nomad to the people in these growing economies. What's the status quo for them now? Like, you you meant... You sort of alluded to several of the problems. Right? You've got the lack of access to digital dollars, or maybe you got tax problems, ability to transact in different currencies, earn earning yield or not at all. Like, what does the status quo look like? Maybe pick one or a couple of those and be like, hey. This is what it looks like to bank, to spend, to save as this person now, and here's what we could unlock. Because it does seem like you have a lot of passion behind unlocking sort of a better experience for these folks and more liberation financially as well. Yeah. I I I think, honestly, the **Lito Coen** (17:51) set of problems differs, you know, country by country. Right? Like, some... In some countries, the problem is, like, you know, inflation and erosion of purchasing power. In another, it might be, you know, capital controls. And yet another, it might just be that they're totally overlooked by, you know, western financial institutions that, you know, give them, yeah, access to to good financial opportunities. It it is... You know, in some in some countries, the local banks are just not interested in, you know, banking a certain sector of the population that's below a certain, like, earning threshold and because they have, like, high fixed costs or something, and they just don't think people below a certain income threshold are, like, interesting enough. So it really... It it it is it is... Like, in in in Asia, you know, there's a massive demand for, like, fiat rails, for example, to be able to deposit... Make a USD bank transfer into a brokerage app, like, a tech to brokers or something. Right? There... There's there's just no way for them to do that and, yeah, to start trading stocks. Potentially, that won't even be needed anymore if, you know, tokenized stocks are integrated in... Into this new bank. But for now, yeah, we... We've observed that there's a huge demand for... Therefore, we're just making, like, fiat bank transfers from several Asian countries and so on. So it it... Like, it is really different country by country, and we're looking at at all of these patterns that we see. And, you know, we do we do a lot of user interviews, and we're learning more and more. And then we try to, like, build the product in a way that that responds to these demands and and obviously kind of, like, focus on the use cases that we're that we're most bullish on. **Zach Hughes** (19:52) Yeah. And and you've been you've been a founder and an operator in this space for a while. You mentioned you have started your own things. You've onboarded people. You've sort of mapped the landscape. What made you say a few months ago, oh, yeah. I have to join this team at Athena. I've gotten to... What made you... Either you're bullish on Guy or this team or this set of solutions. What made you say, like, oh, this is the next chapter for me? **Lito Coen** (20:19) Yeah. Yeah. So I was an early investor in, actually. Just was lucky to to get introduced to Guy when the whole idea... Well, the... When the whole project was just an idea, and then had been thinking about joining a couple of times along the, you know, crazy journey, and it never kind of materialized for for different reasons. But then I was kind of in between jobs six months ago, and and, yeah, a guy reached out to me and told me for the first time that they were building this this product. And I was a huge fan of Obuethena and and of Guy, and then of Neobank. So it was just like, you know, those three things adding up made it a perfect imagine and no brainer. It was a bit hard at first because I hadn't... Like, my plan was not to join a company straight away after after kind of my last my last gig. So it was kind of tossing kind of, like, having a lot of time versus working on something super super cool. And, yeah, I chose I chose the latter, don't regret it yet. It's it's been really intense, but also super fun. It's probably the Poor chewing glass for you. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Especially that one. And, no, it's it's been... It's probably the most fun I've had working on something and and also just hugely rewarding. Yeah. **Zach Fowler** (21:53) Lita, I wanna circle back to what you said earlier about just this notion of neobanks. We've definitely met with a few founders where they're building tooling to build that agentic forward neobank that you can hopefully vibe code, and they hold their licensing. What do what do you think people maybe misunderstand about neobanks, about going to market with them? You kind of alluded to it earlier with the licensing, but even just, like, the experience and, like, why... Like, what... How do you how do you... I mean, what is the lens that you look through with building a new bank? When it is easier than ever to launch one on the surface, but you're learning that everything behind the scenes is infinitely more difficult and intricate than, you know, how they appear, especially if you just were to open your x account and to see all these launches. Mhmm. And I guess maybe forward looking, how many of these do you think will survive in the next five, ten years? Yeah. Exactly. I mean, like like I've alluded to, like, all of these **Lito Coen** (22:53) different things, from mobile app development for different, you know, for different operating systems like iOS, Android, and, like, compliance, BD for, like, all these vendor integrations and, you know, design and ops customer support. Like, all of that is is extremely, extremely hard. And I think the hardest thing that... Like, one one piece that a lot of projects don't realize is that, like, I I believe you you you... The the time when you could, like, launch a neobank as a small start up is probably already over. Right? Because I think you need... I don't think you need, like, an insane fundraise to launch one, but I I do think you need a pretty big watch as it's it's more capital intensive than many many believe or what what it might look like from the outside because people have trust issues. Right? Like, people will only deposit into, neo banks where, you know, they have, I don't know, like, certain security watches, for example, in case of, like, any any incidents. And, you know, they have, like, insurance policies, and they have, you know, a big security team in house. Right? Like, we we have a team of, like, five, six people that just, like, audit our, you know, code bases internally twenty four seven and so on. Like, this... These are... Or, you know... And then not not to speak of the the spend for user acquisition, cashback, you know, compliance, like, all of these things, it's it's quite costly. And right now, increasingly, you're you're competing against, you know, increasingly, I say, with with the entrance of of us into the market, but also, like, EtherFi and potentially Plasma and so on. Like like, for smaller startups there, it... It's it's becoming quite hard to compete, I would say. Like, the window of opportunity is closing. And as you've seen, you know, there's been incidents with with some smaller players and so on. I I believe that only, like, reinforces the the... This trend of, like, wanting to put your money with larger players that have a track record and on. It's kind of like what you see with with classic banks as well. Right? Like Yeah. Who wants to bank with the banks that are too big to fail and so on. So so, yeah, it's it's it's similar dynamic. I think all of these things combined just make it make it pretty hard, and you need, yeah, like a decently sized team to **Zach Fowler** (25:34) to operate a a product like that. I wanna kinda round it out here, but since you mentioned the team, and you kinda mentioned this this culture with with Athena that you've you've really been enjoying. You had this expose about that a lot of people have asked you what it's like working with Guy. You're an early backer, and you've always had a high opinion, and it's actually way more impressive once you see it from behind the scenes. What... And he's a generational founder. That's a very... I mean, what... That would flatter flatter the hell out of me, but, like, unpack that a little bit. Like, what does it take to be a generational founder? What... And I imagine too, like you said, this wasn't something that you were necessarily **Lito Coen** (26:14) looking to do. You know, there's... There has to be some high conviction there behind who you wanna work with. Mhmm. Can you unpack that post a little bit more and and For sure. What really stands out to them? Yeah. I already knew, obviously, like, ever... I mean, it's not it's not a, like, super niche opinion that guy is an impressive founder. Think, you know, like, there's there's a lot of takes on that on on Twitter just, you know, kind of coming into the space with a digital dollar competing against, you know, some, like, massively entrenched businesses coming with, a fresh take on, like, how to, you know, capture some market share and then having this, like, phenomenal rise to, you know, $15,000,000,000 of assets under management, partnerships with the largest exchanges, and so on. It was like, you know... Or getting investments from the from the best investors in crypto and so on. It was it was clear that, you know, this was a a very capable founder and and team to to me as an investor as well, yeah, to to a lot of participants in the market. But but then my my... Yeah. This was confirmed even more to me once I joined because, again, like, seeing what happens behind the scene is is is... Was even more impressive. So it's kind of I think what impresses me the most with, like, generational founders is, like, like, stamina. Right? Like, you know, waking up every morning, you know, 6AM, never, you know, never, you know, never being, like, having a late late wake up where you're a bit lazy or something. But, like, every day, 6AM bum, energized, and, like, jumping into calls, like, left, right, and center all day and just working on so many different threads and initiatives along along across the company and being super aware of what's happening everywhere and jumping in, unblocking things where it's needed. And I think also just from a skill set perspective, like, knowing... Like, being good at, like, BD, like, commercial calls, you know, which is what unlocked all these big partnerships with with big fintechs and centralized exchanges and so on. But then also, like, brand... Personal branding, like, you know, coming across as as a very good, like, capable speaker and thinker in in podcasts and writer in tweets, then also, like, motivating a team, hiring the right people, being analytic... Analytical, like, having good product taste. Like, it it really is, like, yeah, really being super complete. It's not always the case. Right? Like, some some founders are just, like, good technically or something or or just good at sales, but not... Yeah. Like, other things. So, like, that that for me is what makes it the most impressive. But the the... Really, if I had to single out one thing is really, you know, showing up every day and putting in a 100% and not, like, one week, two weeks, three weeks, but over many years. Right? Because that's what compounds over, yeah, over time and and differentiates, like, average founders from, like, **Zach Hughes** (29:30) phenomenal founders, I think. Love it. Well, hope you saw this because I think you just gave a really nice compliment. Yeah. Let's see. Let's see. Maybe we we cut it on that. It's a clip. But I love it. You know, that compounding effort, stacking the days over years, it's it's not easy to do, and that consistency really pays off. So I know even bigger things are coming for you and the team. We're excited to keep watching. **Zach Fowler** (29:55) Amazing. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on, Ado. See you next time.