Deel's Stablecoin Payroll Just Went Live in Latin America, Powered by Mural Pay

Sinclair Tofa. He's back. He's smiling. How are doing? To be back. We're too proud of you. The news on the timeline, we're we're making money. We're closing deals. Speaking of deals, tell us about deal. Speaking deals. There you go. Wonderful. Tell us about the deal news. This is this is sweet, man. And then I believe it's our our first time meeting. Yeah. Oh, been Fowler.

Been here. Know? I've been here since season I know you've been here. Yeah. You've been here for but, like, meeting, like, the students like this scene. Pretty face behind the scenes for any longer. He had I know. Drew's finally letting me out of the cave. I'm putting in some limelight. He's letting me go to Mexico City. No. I'm just kidding. Congrats on congrats on making it out.

Nice to see you, Zach. Alright. So Wonderful to be back. Yeah. Let's go, man. We're gonna peel a bunch of stuff back from Muralpay. We'll go into the business, all the stuff that's that's going on there. But let's start with the news, and then we'll back up from there. So what what's happening with Deal? We saw this last week, I believe. We we were really stoked to have you on and talk about this. Well, thank you for having me. We are very excited about our partnership with Deal.

We actually just announced it publicly last week. This is the big employer of record,

HR company out there, and they have been a phenomenal partner. They've been moving very quickly, into the stablecoin space, and we are actually powering their Latin American stablecoin, payouts.

So for deal employees that are in Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Mexico, and more throughout Latin America, They can finally actually withdraw their salaries in stablecoins, in USDC, in USDT, and really just giving more folks access to the dollar at scale and being able to use that money that they're earning anywhere they need it. Right?

Whether it's a stablecoin connected wallet, there's a lot of those that are growing extremely rapidly in Latin America, and so it's been an absolute pleasure working with with the deal team. And Epic. Let's let's can we break this down a little bit more? Because I think with the world of payroll is one that's it feels so similar yet for and, you know, we receive

payroll every, you know, every week, every month. But when you talk about payroll with all these different jurisdictions, I saw so many people on time line saying, why does this matter? Deal already offered stablecoin payments for over, I think, over a year, maybe closer to two years with BVNK. And you said something that I wanna I wanna double click on, which is EOR, employer of record, and that this is actual stablecoin payments for employer of record.

So can you help break down those those two buckets and why this is even more impactful than just stablecoin payments to contractors?

Deal approached us with a problem. The problem was how can we enable from the deal side, how can we enable our customers to pay their employees in stablecoins? And when it comes to employee payroll, employee payroll is actually very different from contractor payroll. And so there's a lot of localized regulation in all of these different countries in Latin America, and the compliance and regulatory aspect is is very important here.

And so for, employee payroll to be considered legal jurisdictions in Latin America, money actually has to flow from a, effectively, a deal fiat bank account into a named employee fiat bank account and then into a StablePoint wallet. And so that that intermediary step of moving into a named employee bank account is actually really important because payroll can only be considered legal payroll if it goes from a fiat account to a fiat account.

And around all of those local bank accounts, there's diff different laws around opening up those bank accounts Yeah. Ensuring that those accounts are actually compliant, and how do you ensure the the reporting behind that as well. So our, you know, our four deployed engineering team actually uncovered this through process of working with them,

the importance of those regulatory and compliance aspects. Yeah. EOR is just this beast that, like, when you realize what deal actually had to do to scale and to offer real payroll for companies that have, you know, the benefits. They're covering taxes. In each of these, they have, you know, a 100 plus entities across the world to actually operate in each of these company countries.

And so your your your role in this bucket, because I think there was a few logos on this announcement, Your focus is primarily Latin America. Is that correct? Did we lose Sinclair?

Yeah. We'll bring him back. Zach, where do you when you think about just where this gets personal for you, where did you like, what is so unique about EOR? Okay. Well,

I wouldn't say one, because I think when I was at Rise, it was it was one of those areas where it took years for them to launch that project, like, a few years after I actually left. But then that's when I started to understand the nuances between but with payroll, and I think Sinclair's back up. So let's bring him I'm not seeing an ability to bring him back on. Do you? No. I lost it. Andre, it looks like we have a bit of a I'm gonna refresh. Managing.

I'm just gonna refresh.

Oh, looks like we're good. Yeah. You Disregard.

Sinclair, can you can you hear us? Yes. Still muted on our end. Andre, can't hear him. Sinclair, one more time. Yeah. We're back. Okay. Cool. And Zach is coming in. Alright. Got it. We're back. No. So I was gonna say the the quick personal bit is just when I was working at Rise, it was payroll, but it was contractor payroll.

Deal was definitely, like, the main competitor when I was selling into, call it, more of the crypto native firms, but we did have people that were, you know, just web two companies hiring people globally. And there was a lot of contractors that we were paying, a lot of contractors, but there it always came up, but I have full time employees. How do we and that was always the big hurdle. So that's RISE has has launched that EOR product, again, I think in a in a few jurisdictions.

But, again, also understanding from the in the regulatory environment how those those funds actually have to flow. And I think also understanding what it does mean to be a contractor versus a full time. For me, this is kind of a signal of, you know, it's it's another maturing phase of stablecoins for people that are because likely, if you're full time, you know, you're not staying on for three to six months. Ideally, you're there for two, three, four years, and this is this is a career oriented job.

And it does signal that these are becoming such an influential piece of everyday people's finances that they want their payroll in it, not just, you know, the the gig work that is, you know, paying the bills for the month, if that makes sense.

Yeah. And what what a lot of people don't realize is doing employee local employee payroll well is really tough because of all of the different localized regulation that you have. And so that is something that Deal has done really well, and that's something that they're rapidly expanding it. You know, to your point, you know, oftentimes when you work with a contractor, it might be for three months, six months, kind of these shorter time frames.

What's really exciting on the employee side is these are much longer engagements. Right? Employees are typically with you for a year, two years, five years plus. And Mhmm. For me, this is a full circle moment personally because when, I first started Mural around four and a half years ago, we started working with contractors in Argentina, in Colombia Yeah. And we were paying them out in stable point. Right?

And then fast forward to now, we've actually moved over to DEAL, and we are now going to use the very feature that we've built, you know, with DEAL for our own team. And I'm very excited for all the other teams, all the other companies out there that are going to use this. And, you know, at the end of the day, we view Stablecoins as this new, database that everyone's building new applications on top of this new database.

And so it's been really exciting to see companies like Dollarapp, you know, Arc, for instance, Letio, all these other companies, right, that are connected to this new database. And it is now this new instant database that everyone can can transact with. So it's it's been amazing to see how much this space has has matured.

So I'm smiling because of your even like, the way that you think about this as a database, it just makes me makes me smile knowing your background a little bit. I don't know if, Zach, that's where you were gonna go. But, No. I was actually just gonna go more of just, a really quick like, we don't have to spend a ton of time on this. But the I think the natural progression that I asked then,

does Deal launch their own Stablecoin one day? Should they? Should they not? Think I think the answer I would say, yeah. You probably should. And, again, if you look at it from a database programmable money inspect obviously, you go down the revenue route, which night, it's a nice to have. But from a compliance, from a how you can control money moves throughout your a 150 organizations worldwide.

I think it makes a lot of sense, but Yeah. Maybe that's what we'll be covering in six to twelve months. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I remember we we went through that phase where everyone was launching their own stablecoin, and I I think at the end of the day, it comes down to what is the actual utility you want, and are you looking to maximize revenue with assets that are sitting somewhere? And if so, what are the different routes to maximizing that asset return?

And one way could be launching your own stablecoin, but I believe there are a lot of other ways as well. And so I'd be curious, you know, from from their standpoint, what what are they looking to maximize and what are they optimizing for?

It seems like right now, what they're optimizing for is, really upgrading their existing stack to becoming a stable point blockchain native stack, and that they have identified this opportunity to actually maybe even replace or augment some of the existing infrastructure with some of this newer infrastructure as more folks connect in. And so I imagine a lot more companies will follow deal in in, you know, in this instance, and

a lot of governments and and and countries as well will follow this. You can imagine a world in which taxes are done through this as well through stablecoins. Sinclair, you guys have you said four plus years you've been around. The scale of partnerships and deals that you're closing is just really impressive. It's it feels like you guys are really hitting an awesome stride with the the last time we were catching up, it was tax bit. Now you have deal.

As you guys think about the the core business, I know you've had both, like, the actual dashboard that people can use and go in and use this type of functionality, but then you you have these really interesting underlying APIs and rails that companies can use for real time payments, global accounts. How do you think about the differences lately on the more, like, no code dashboard versus what you're seeing on the API side? Are you leaning toward Yeah. More of this API first narrative?

Yeah. It's been it's been great. I mean, you've really seen the full the full evolution here. So we are absolutely leaning more into the API infrastructure, infrastructure, and what we have seen is that a lot of people are looking to use what we've built and just integrate it directly into their platforms. And the couple things that we've really been leaning in, one is the API infrastructure, two is agentic compliance, which I believe we we we started speaking a little bit Yeah. Last time we spoke.

And now that's that's fully in production, so I'll share a little more what AgenTic compliance actually looks like. We've been investing heavily in our money transmission licenses, direct connectivity into the banks here in The US and abroad as well, which has allowed us to close larger companies like Deal, for instance, like Bolt, for instance, and many more.

And and then we've been really investing heavily into our four deployed engineering team where this is something we took from our days at Palantir working with some of the largest Fortune one hundreds and five hundreds out there. We will deploy four deployed engineers with the customer who will then understand the edge cases of the use case that people are missing. And then we will actually those those four deployed engineers will actually ship code and then turn that around same day or same week.

And so we're patching a lot of the edge cases, which in the payments world typically happens around compliance, regulation, scalability, as well, data integrations into different local systems.

And so that has been some of the most powerful transformations we've been doing over the past six months. And, yeah, very, you know, very very excited about just continuing to amplify the mission of other businesses out there. How does that differ from maybe how typically companies build or that the what you learned at Palantir, this forward deployed model? Like, how would you contrast that to maybe how typical products are built, and why is that better in your view?

Yeah. So, you know, you have the model which is self serve, right, where you just go to someone's company, someone's website, API docs, and then you just start integrating. Right? There is the model of, hey, should we just build this in house and kind of stitch together all of these different tools? And then there's the model of, you know, for deployed engineering where you partner with someone to really accelerate the integration and the go to market. And those are all different routes.

For us, what we've seen is if you are a business, you wanna move quickly, you wanna move compliantly, and you don't wanna stitch together all of these different tools, We have found that the four deployed engineering motion actually works really well because it ensures that we meet the compliance regulatory integrate integration obligations for that business.

And instead of something that might take six months to a year to build out and integrate, here, it's a matter of days, weeks, right, to actually get up and running. So it's always the the typical build versus buy. Right? And one of the things that we have been working on has been ability to move from the proposal, which is usually in a PDF, right, where you're you're wondering, alright.

How can I actually use this technology to instantly generated demos that are tailored towards your use case that we can generate on on the fly, that is directly integrated with our staging and production stack so that you actually leave with this link, this shareable link, so that you can actually test it out and share it internally with your team? Right? So that's something that we're launching soon that a couple folks have access to. You all will have access to it as well. Right?

If you wanna start testing it out and see, you know, what what can Stapledash do with this? Like, what, you know, what can we actually integrate more payments into the business? And you really wanna feel it. Right? The magic moment is feeling it and seeing how quickly you can stand it up and knowing that you have humans on the other side who are going to help you accelerate the the actual build.

I I think you brought up a good point, and this is just this kinda covers all aspects of the space when we talk about things from, you know, yield

to agentic payments to compliance flows to even what we talked about with EOR and how the money goes. You know, Coast is a is a great sponsor and and support of the show where they help to visualize these APIs. And that's something think Drew and I are both passionate about is trying to think, like, how do we pair visuals with these, at times, very abstract concepts? Because just more on the yield DeFi side, but you see USDE and you see USX who we had on the show earlier.

And on the surface, you're like, oh, my mental model is these are two very similar yield products. How are they actually working under the hood? And if you try to go actually find a visual, you're either scouring the docs or they just don't exist. So That's right. All that to say is I would definitely take you up on that offer to say, hey. What did what did what does this look like in practice?

You know, how do we how do we share what this actually I just it feels a little stickier when you have a visual to pair with anything.

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I would say the other thing is everyone's talking about AgenTic payments. We are not talking about AgenTic payments. We're talking about AgenTic compliance. And AgenTic compliance is is really where it's at. Right? Because a lot of the the hurdles with payments is you actually don't necessarily want an agent that's moving a thousand, a 100,000. Yeah. There there it is. Agenta compliance.

You you you don't want an agent that is moving a thousand, 10,000, a 100,000 on behalf of you quite yet. Right? Not yet. It it it will happen. Right now, Agenta compliance is how do we decrease the time that it takes to review a business application or an individual application, KYB, KYC? How do we package the data and then transmit that to the relevant parties? Right?

If we are moving that data to a banking partner, for instance, how do we package that data, do that initial scan, and then decrease the back and forth between the customer and their end users and our team reviewing. Right? And so a lot of the back and forth that typically happens over email, we're actually moving that such that as you're uploading your information, you're getting real time feedback on, hey. This document's incorrect. Did you mean to do this one?

And all of that's being localized as well. So it's localized to the language. It's localized to the local regulation as well, and it's going to keep adapting and evolving very quickly. Do you feel like when you when you think about one of the core focuses of MURAL and the key advantages you have given your background, would you say compliance is one of those, like, secret weapons to the business and understanding the nuances of that, this the friction that's typically surrounding that?

Like, how do you think about that as a competitive edge?

I would say compliance is a very strong competitive edge of ours, and it will continue to be. We're investing heavily there. The way we think about it is, you know, one, it's a data integration problem where how do we make sure to bring in the right data quickly and efficiently. And then two, how do you build the right agentic stack, right, in house such that you can quickly process and provide feedback.

And so our our CTO Parker actually worked on a lot of the back end LLM infrastructure deployment at at Palantir and now is replicating a lot of that here at at Mural. And it's been it's been absolutely incredible seeing him really drive that team wide, company wide.

And, you know, compliance has been the starting point, and now we're just deploying it to different aspects of the business. We're in such a interesting moment for on chain FX. It seems like this this topic around being able to convert, receive, swap at scale, which seems like we're entering into a really interesting growth phase around some of this and and what's possible. We've talked to a handful of teams building in this, like, stablecoin powered effect space.

That that seems to be one of the core pieces here, and and maybe maybe that goes back a little bit. I'd love to break down the practical fiat to fiat capabilities you guys are talking about with deal. Like, it sounds like that specifically with this use case was, like, a core need that they had of we need to move fiat from this bank account, and fiat needs to land in another bank account.

Where do things like stablecoins become competitively advantageous in those flows, or is something like that with deal or stablecoins may be happening after the fact? What does that look like?

Yeah. Right now, the fiat component is still really important because there's not enough liquidity depth in the stablecoin world and local stablecoins yet. As local stablecoins come online and as the liquidity gets built out, we're going to see more of that on chain effects happening. But right now, it's still very much so, you know, in in the fiat world.

And for us, it's been a process of integrating these local real time networks and working with different local banking partners that can actually support the right use cases around payroll and more. And so it's actually been a, you know, much heavier lift than we have anticipated directly working with those banks and standing them up.

It's been interesting, though, because we've had our first set of customers ask us for local stablecoins, like local Colombian peso stablecoin, which a year ago, we were not hearing about. And it seems like local stablecoins are appearing in markets where it is tough to settle in real time with local fiat. And so Colombia is a good example of that where you have Brebe, which is the the real time payment network there that just got rolled out.

But it has some size limitations, and so some people are looking to move towards local Colombian pistol stablecoins. And so, yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm I'm curious if you all have seen some of those local stablecoins pop up out there and and and how how you see the market evolving on that front. You know, first month of the show, it felt like we talked about it a lot, and maybe maybe that's, you know, because we had Hanan on from Codex,

Dave on from Etherfuse, which I know he's definitely been been beating that drum. And, you know, we talked about this with in the last segment where we hear it anecdotally from founders and builders in the space that demand is growing. Who we wanna talk to more is who's generating that demand. You know, those companies or those clients that actually do want them, how are they integrating them into their actually payment flows? So, I mean, I would I'd break it down.

Like, we have three categories right now, maybe call it four, that are constantly on the rise. Obviously, neofinance and infrastructure is a big one. We're AgenTic payments, and and I I would actually add in AgenTic compliance in that because you've brought it up. We had to kill on from from Predicate. That was a that was a great segment as well. So those are those buckets. OnchainFX is still there, but it's definitely kinda riding the waves, I will say.

I think in the news on Tuesday, we covered two new non USD stablecoins launching. Tether did the the Georgian Lyra, and then there was JPYC, I think, raised, you know, almost 20,000,000. And In Japan? The last yeah. In in Japan. And then the last bucket, I would say that we see a lot of conversations kind of converging around is credit, trade finance,

but even also the credit coupe, especially. But where does the like, more I'm confused a little bit on the requirements around what something needs to like, it sounds like Sinclair, fiat to fiat needs to happen for this to qualify as, like, what deal is needing. So if that is the case, are stablecoins being looped in once that once the the funds settle in fiat, and then once that happens, you can then bring stablecoins into the fold from a utility standpoint.

If they're not, are they used actually like in between in creative ways to make it work? How does that work? Yeah. So they're they're actually used after the fiat leg. So we'll go from a deal fiat account to the employee local fiat account

and then to a stablecoin wallet. Right? It could be an external or internal stablecoin wallet. And that first component, once again, is from a regulatory and legal standpoint. And then, you know, that last component is moving it out in Stablecoins so that you can move it into any Stablecoin compatible account or wallet.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a that's helpful. It's it's

different than your traditional stablecoin sandwich where it's fiat stablecoin fiat. Here, it's fiat fiat stablecoin.

Really cool. Really cool. I like that. Sinclair, I wanted to ask, like, more of, like, a founder founder journey oriented question because we've seen this quite a bit where, you know, I think Dakota also comes to mind as somebody who started on this more banking terminal type experience, and then this is, hey. Infrastructure is where it's at. And, obviously, I I I'm curious, like, how do your convictions change as as a founder?

Was there a moment where you're like, I don't I I know I should go this direction, but I don't want to because this was my baby, and this is what I set out to build. I can even remember way back in season two of stable minded where you're saying, hey. We've, you know, abstracted away crypto and stablecoins, and then stablecoins kind of started to come back into the conversation. So you're like, okay. We do need to talk about those.

What has that journey been like, and what would your advice be to other founders that are at inflection points when they I don't wanna call it a pivot, but they need to evolve and Yeah. Kinda step into this new era.

It's a great great question. That's one thing we've been really good at is just continuing to evolve and really listening to our customers. And so the thing that has been driving us over time has been listening to our customers, seeing how the market is evolving, and just a deeper understanding that as you know, after the Genius Act, more and more businesses were open to integrating this technology, but didn't quite know how to do it.

And so we actually had a very natural progression where we had all these customers asking us, hey, can we can we integrate this? And so it was a combination of listening to the market, our existing customers, and new ones. And then the other aspect is just us asking ourselves and being very honest with ourselves, what is our superpower? What are we world class in?

And when we kept on reflecting with that question, we came to the conclusion that what we are world class in is building great software, great APIs, great integrations, and really doing what we did incredibly well, you know, before, at Palantir and at these other businesses that touched all of this data and software and just applying it to the money movement and money storage space.

And so it's going back to it's funny how in in the founder life cycle, as you guys know, you know, you start here, you go over here, and then you come back here.

You know, we're we're somehow back to, you know, to our roots, which is integrating and building great software and providing that connective tissue and keeping up with the times, right, and understanding how things are how things are evolving just just as you guys have seen as well, right, seeing that a lot of existing businesses are looking to integrate this this technology. And so opening the aperture from the crypto native circle

over towards the existing market. Yeah. It but it is also interesting how much of the crypto native circle also needs to be educated to to some degree on the TradFi side of things, on the practical side of payments because it's almost like you go so far down the rabbit hole, and it's you know, the crypto natives need to go go one way and then the Totally. You TradFi needs to be another way. Thinking about layer two, three, four, and, you know, you're

really thinking through all of these lower level, you know, swapping, token swapping, etcetera. And then there's the other aspect, which is, hey, how do we make this legal? How do we make this compliant? How does this integrate into our existing accounting systems, our existing banking systems? And there's a it's connectivity into the existing infrastructure.

Yeah. Absolutely. Sinclair, I'm looking at the website. Looks like you guys have a handful of roles open. I love this term. We build financial systems for the global economy of tomorrow. Tell us about the opportunities. What you're looking at, Drew? Yeah. The careers page. It looks like you guys have, like, some sales stuff, growth and marketing, finance. Where does the opportunity like, where where are you guys growing into, and what does the future of, like, rest of year look like for Mural Pay or Mural? Sorry.

I'm gonna I'm gonna drop in the drop in the pay as of now.

Mural. So we are hiring for 10 positions at the moment. Actually, more, but around 10. We haven't fully updated that, page yet. But here are a couple of of the roles that we're really excited about. One is marketing. We haven't really done much marketing to date, and we are looking to do a lot more of that. So if you know of a great marketing person or if you're that, we would love to chat with you.

Two is on the engineering side, looking for great full stack developers and developers that have had experience with cards. So specifically debit, credit card, acquiring, not the issuance front on the acquiring front. We are looking for great for deployed engineers, what we call deltas here here at Mural. So those are engineers that are a little more customer facing. We are hiring across this is really, really important. On the sales side, we we need more sales folks.

So if you are a great seller, a great account executive, would love to chat. We're hiring on couple compliance roles and then a go to market engineer role. You know, data engineer turned go to market engineer. So those those are a couple of the roles we will be announcing some exciting news around capital and funding as well over the coming weeks, so stay tuned there. Oh, okay. Yeah. Here we go. We we're we're bringing in some some exciting exciting folks.

And and, yeah, now, you know, now is where MURAL is definitely entering a new chapter right now. Like, you you have caught me and the team at a really exciting point of inflection where it feels like a whole new MURAL that's about to come. It's a whole whole new mural, and I I could not be more proud of our team that we're building. There we go. Let the money bring it in. Let the money run, man. You've worked for it. Okay. Well,

we are very excited to hear more on that. Keep us posted on when that news is is ready to break, and we can help with that. And, yeah, let's see. Post on effects once as that as that develops too. We'd love to hear what hear more about what you're you're seeing boots on the ground in these conversations. Happy to. And how can I and the team help you guys? Man. What do you think? That's a good question.

So we've kind of gotten, like, lumped into this, like, crypto native show bubble, which we kinda knew would happen just given the nature of the conversations. We just spend a lot of time thinking, like, how do we get in front of a more fintech, modern money focused crowd? And, also, what do they what do they wanna talk about? What do they wanna hear about? What do they need to learn about?

Because it's like sometimes we're just falling down the rabbit hole, and I think you I think we should reach our hand out and try to grab the ladder and say, hey. Hold on. We can we can we need to bring it back to basics sometimes. So Well, good. I think for me, that's the big focus is is what does that fintech

We wanna we wanna talk to people who are adopting, and we wanna talk to you guys, obviously, but we also wanna talk with the deals and the bolts. So if you could help connect us with the people on their side who are also, like, prioritizing the things that they love about MURAL and and the there are, I'm sure, a lot of awesome internal champions who you guys work with who are, like, beating that drum within their own organizations. And so for us, I think we've done a really, really great job.

I would argue one of the best jobs in the space of highlighting the infrastructure stack and all the companies that are building the tools and the building blocks. I think what we wanna do now is work with those companies strategically to then bring in their customers and the people that they are selling to to amplify those priorities and use those as, like, kind of educational material to help others and other companies learn how to think about this because there's enough, like, really cool use cases.

And we're we're closing some interesting, like, research sponsorships that focus on topic driven things that that could be cool. Zach is pulling up here, like, a current view of is this everyone we've met with? It's kind of hard to see. But I think if you zoom in. It's hard to see. I'm trying to well, if I zoom in, it gets it gets cut off. So maybe this is like a oh, yep. See. Yeah. That's a good if you wanna go through those briefly. Yeah. That's view is helpful.

So this is a view of all of them. Struggling right now. I mean, Can extend the solar? This is crazy. This is cool. No. This is something that we've just, like, we've been ideating, and we were trying to figure out how we integrate it with our website. But, obviously, we have, like, market maps of, at least, of just what's out there right now. Yeah. We're just thinking about, like, hey. What's the market map of everybody we've talked to?

I I love what talked to the principal from one k x last week, and she brought up this idea of like a zettelkasten, which is being able to take notes and how all of that intertwines like within, you know, your mind, but I'm even thinking of all of these conversations and all of these sectors right now. How how do they, you know, interconnect? How are they woven together? What are the threads through all these conversations? And it's it is just cool to be able to look at this and be like, oh, wow.

We've talked with this many companies in the past three months of doing I'm this

trying to find Mural in here. Where where where are they falling? They're not in they're not in here. Payments and settlement.

I think we know that's where you wanna be. Payments and settlement. Well, it seems like you all have placed us in payments and settlement. I you know, it's interesting because we have done we have done this shift from, before, we were really focusing on FX and cross border payments, right, and and payments and settlements. And now, what we're leaning very heavily on is the accounts and the account being a superposition of bank accounts and stablecoin accounts.

And the account is the core ontological object upon which businesses build applications on top of it.

So really moving we we see cross border and FX as a feature, not the core products, not the core driver for us. Yeah. The core driver is really, really accounts. Right? And then building products on top of that accounts. I think even when we were going in and making this, it was a little bit hard to figure out, like, what are these clear cut categories because Yeah. Most of it is, like, you know, the vendor There's a lot of overlap.

A lot of there's so much overlap in what these companies are doing that I'm I'm looking at this again. I'm like, yeah. Before I post this, we're probably gonna have to do this. Yeah. We need we need some more sheer review. So peer review would be great.

Happy to help. Well, I have to this this was really a pleasure. Thank you again for taking the time. Yeah. And Zach and Drew, just congrats again. Congrats again on on what you're building, on growing it. And yeah. I mean, once again, we're gonna look back at these days that this is when things were just getting started. Things were just getting started when we were talking back in the day and then now too, and you guys are are core to the ecosystem. So thank you again for everything you do.

Likewise, man.