Brian Huang on Tokenized Equities, Automated Portfolios, and the 80% Locked Out of Fidelity

How are you guys doing? Doing really good.

Long long long stream, but these are these are how we like them. I was just looking at Glider. This has been a topic that we've been having a lot of fun diving into, and it seems like there's there's not one one consensus into how do we invest on chain. So, yeah, we would love just a quick background, who you are, what are you building, and maybe what you were even doing before you were start building Glider.

Yeah. So I'm Brian. I am one of the cofounders of Glider. We've been around for about a year and a half, and the whole premise of Glider is that we have all of these assets coming on chain, RWAs, stocks, bonds, pre IPO companies, you name it. And the user experience that we have today to invest in these is through wallets, which are far too crypto native and not normie friendly enough for the vast majority of the world. We operate two business lines. So we have direct to consumer.

You can go to glider.fi and use our app. And we also have a b to b angle as well, where you can take the portfolios that Glider creates and embed them into your applications. So what this might look like is something like a direct indexed ETF. So for example, you can create an ETF around healthcare stocks, around automobile stocks, you name it. And we could also we'll very soon be offering things like, you know, the Nancy Pelosi tracker, but fully on chain, fully on chain stocks.

And, you know, that's interesting because for people who want to do things with, like, US markets or the Nancy Pelosi tracker, it's only available to people in The US. And so getting global access to these assets is is pretty exciting. We're across a different couple different chains. So Base, Mainnet Ethereum, Solana, Arbitrum, have some good investors that you guys can see on the website, but, know, just to name, like, 16 and Coinbase and and others.

For a little bit of background on me, so I started my career in traditional finance. I worked at a big bank, Morgan Stanley, for the briefest ten months of my life. Absolutely hated it. It was so bad. It was so bad. What was so bad about What

did that what did that mean? I've never worked at a place like that. You didn't feel like you were doing intellectual

work. Right? Like, you felt like you were just doing work for work's sake. And, you know, I was a trader there. I sat on, like, the 4th Floor Of Times Square staring out the eminent billboard, and I was like, what am I doing here? I would get in at 06:30AM. I would leave at 7PM, and never felt fulfilled. So I left Morgan Stanley. I joined a trading firm that is somewhat infamous. It's called XTX Markets.

If you've seen those posts about, like, Jane Street being, like, you know, x, y, and z, how much it makes per employee, there was one trading firm above that, and that was XTX Markets. XTX makes more money per employee than pretty much any trading firm out there. Maybe except for Renaissance, but I don't know how much Renaissance makes or how many employees they And then I worked at Anchorage for about a year and a half, building out their, trading infrastructure.

So how do the biggest institutions around the world, like MicroStrategies, buy Bitcoin? And how do they do it through safe custody that keeps that money safe? So, yeah, that's a that's a little bit about us. Got a team of, like, 10 folks all around the world at this point.

So you said that Morgan Stanley wasn't fulfilling. I have to assume that when you when you go and you start a company and you, you know, you raise money by a from a 16 z and others that, you know, we're all in that pursuit of we wanna be fulfilled by our day to day jobs. What about the vision of Glider, you know, makes this role fulfilling where maybe Morgan Stanley wasn't? I mean, I think you wanna be doing something that is at the cutting edge where somebody has never really explored.

And so when I was at Morgan Stanley, I was trading treasuries and bonds. And you think about, like, how long this has been done this way and how much influence you can actually have on the markets. Very little. Very little on the way that, like, treasuries and market structure, it works. Right?

It took to give you an example, it took probably over a decade for US treasuries to trade between, like, one third of a tick to one sixty fourth of a tick, which is basically saying, like, it went from trading stocks at a dollar increments to, like, a penny increment. And that took a decade. But, like Wow. Really took forever. And then, you know, I worked at XTX, and similarly, like, XTX is an incredible trading firm and trades stocks and all this stuff.

But it's been done, and it's highly competitive and been done forever for the last, I don't know, years in high frequency trading. And so when I think about, what's interesting about this space is we're doing things that nobody's ever done. We're building things that nobody's ever done and trying to package them up in newer user experiences that people have never seen.

So, you know, a lot of what we're doing now is focusing on on how can we build AI agents that can build portfolios or automate workflows that are processes that are, you know, maybe difficult for most of our users to do. Yeah. I've been I've been thinking about this. Like, when do you think that people trust AI agents enough to actually let them build their portfolio?

And I guess the the second part of that is, so how much of that is just under the hood? You guys are using it to manage it, to auto balance portfolios for people. How much of that is, you know, is is research? Like, what is that happy medium of, you know, using this technology that is a great tool for us while also still staying grounded in the trust that you probably

at least I see in the near future, you're you want from maybe, say, a financial adviser. Yeah. I mean, you are a 100% correct in that I think we are very far from agents being able to manage autonomously your money. Right? When we think about the space and things that we see for agents doing agentic things related to trading, you basically have noise. Right? Like, this this is just agents deciding when to buy, when to sell, and it's it more or less looks like beta to the market and and randomness.

What's important for agents is keeping execution deterministic. So And you're gonna see a lot of that since people talking a lot about that.

I don't wanna get too much into, like, the secret sauce of of what we've been doing around that. What does that mean, though, when you say that? When I hear that term, and I'm like, I don't really follow what that term even means Without going too saucy, how would you define that?

Yeah. I'll give you a very simple example. Like, let's say I typed into an agent, I want to buy Solana, and it went and did that. Right? If I type that in versus if you type in buy me Solana, you still need to have the same exact output for that different type of input. Right? So that's going from just natural language, whatever you type into a box, into something that is actually deterministic, that could be executed on chain. That that's a very simple example. Right?

So, like, how could I be sure that no matter what somebody types into this bot, if typing is even what the future looks like, that, they're still gonna get the same deterministic on chain execution? Because I'll give you another example. Like, what do you mean by Solana? Is it Solana on base? Is it Solana on Solana chain? Like, there there is so much that has to go into the context of building these systems that doesn't just mean slapping an LLM onto your trading agent. It's never gonna work.

And I think people have this magic idea that like, oh, yeah, ChatGPT can do it all, so it can definitely invest for me. But, you know, if it could invest for you, then it would be doing it for everybody, and everybody would be, like, incredibly wealthy. But clearly, that's that's not happening.

Brian, can you we were thinking about this a little bit and just frame us in terms of the difference here of, like, payments versus portfolios. I think the stablecoin of Twitter loves to talk about the relationship between stablecoins and payments, but I think there is a underappreciated commentary or story around portfolios and and investing. How are you thinking about that difference and and maybe where Glider plays into the port portfolio side of this, both for, like, businesses, it sounds like, and consumers?

It looks like you guys are doing

having an approach uniquely for each. So I like to say that stablecoins are the gateway drugs to on chain assets. Because, I mean, once you have the assets on, like, stablecoins on chain, you can very easily now buy currencies, stocks, pre IPO companies, bonds. Like, there's all this stuff that you can now buy. That first step, though, of getting the assets actually on chain is always the trickiest part. And then when I think about, like, the prevailing businesses in the world, neobanks are cool and exciting. Right?

Like, they have deposits and payments and things like that and credit cards. But there is this whole open space, which I really don't see a lot of people building around, which is brokerage and actually building out ways for people to manage their wealth on chain. And I'm not even saying they even need to know the assets are on chain for what it's worth. I think we should obstruct all of that away. But we are you know, where where is the on chain fidelity?

Where where is that actual application that is focused on growing your wealth through ways other than just earn? And so for us, when we talk to a neobank, and, you know, we work with a handful of them, it's like, okay, you're a neobank right now, aka you're like Bank of America with a checking account, and maybe you issue a credit card or debit card. Bank of America has a brokerage arm. Right? And they've acquired wealth managers like Merrill Lynch back in the day.

You should now be thinking about how do I offer investing strategies, ETFs, portfolios to your users as another revenue line for you guys. And so I think that's what we're gonna see shape up because payments, cards, all of that is incredibly commoditized. What is really sticky? Sticky things are, like, portfolios, ETFs, like mutual funds, which maybe looks like vaults to some extent.

That's where money really stays, and that's things that you can monetize much more easily. Yeah. I get I'm just I'm following this because we just think about this a lot. Not only do we think about if stablecoins are the gateway drug, how do we get more capital? How do we get people moving their money into stablecoins, especially in the if they're in The US where you're like, hey. These banking products are extremely sticky. There's not a high pain point.

But also then, if Fidelity is that sticky, how do you get them either out of that or how do you target the younger generation that because I the way I see it is it's probably a lot easier to say, hey. Your first investing account

start here. Start in Glider. Don't ever even start in Fidelity in the first place. How do you think about kind of those two segments of the market that are you're kinda you're trying to unstick them from from their, you know, their legacy app versus and say, hey. Get started with us. I think there are a lot of people out there who think they can convert somebody from Fidelity or Vanguard to on chain stocks. And I'm gonna tell you, it's an entire waste of time.

Until you can do that, like like, in kind transfer and you tell them the benefits of why you'd wanna be on chain and what you can get from it, or it's just clearly abstracted away because Fidelity does it themselves, that is an entire waste of time. You are not going to be able to convert somebody from Fidelity to on chain stocks. What's more important is what you said. So how do you go after the rest of the world that doesn't have access to US assets? That's about 80 of the world.

That is a massive population that does not have access to things like US stocks. And then how do you get younger generations that have never onboarded with Fidelity or Vanguard to invest in on chain stocks? And a lot of that, I think, comes from being a little bit more AI native, being a little bit cooler in terms of branding, like, being a little bit more differentiated in terms of brand. So that that's how we attract the younger generation into these things.

You you target them through the channels that you would expect, like TikTok or Instagram. You will convert some people from Fidelity. Right? Like, I'm not saying this is impossible, but you need to be able to convince them that there is a benefit to coming and doing these things. And so a common example I like to give is, would you rather hold NVIDIA stock, or would you hold Nvidia stock earning 2% because it's being lent on chain?

Now I don't have to say all that, but, like, it's pretty obvious you're gonna wanna hold Nvidia earning 2%. And so I think you will see some people make that move from, okay, I can actually make more money here because, you know, I cut out all the middlemen in the stack that I don't have to have because we're on chain. Again, they don't have to know it's on chain. But that's that is a way harder sell to try to convince somebody to move from Fidelity to an on chain stock. I think that is a

not a worthwhile use of time, quite honestly. So when you you mentioned of, like like, TikTok, so does that mean are you running, like, go to marketplace right now across, like, TikTok and Instagram? I'm thinking I sent Drew a tweet this morning. Somebody was talking about, you know, Slash, the neo banking app, how they're some running something like a 100 clips a day across 300 accounts.

And I even started noticing it on my YouTube shorts where it would just be some random, like, entrepreneurial clipping page and start watching the videos. Like, oh, this is, like, trying to push slash, and we're seeing this clipping economy grow. Obviously, we're here in the media. How do you approach that as a as a consumer facing app? How do you look at getting in front of that audience across these platforms?

It's tricky. We're we're across all of the platforms. Right? So we're talking about TikTok, Instagram, Reddit, X, YouTube. I'm probably missing some. Right? And so it is really a full full market force. Our head of marketing is incredible. She's doing all this stuff, and she's got a little bit of help, but she's really running good at herself. And yeah. Look. I the one thing that I think sort of bothers me, and I would love your guys' opinion on this, is we wanna keep the level of our brands incredibly high. Right?

We don't wanna create AI slot videos. We don't want to lean too heavily into, like, any of this, like, sort of generative marketing stuff yet. Because to my sense, when I see AI generated media, I sort of dismiss it as not premium. And I don't know if I'm the only one who feels that way, but I I feel that way too.

It's it's incredibly damaging, and I I don't think people realize how damaging it is to brand equity when you just, like, put put a very like, AI there's a difference between something being leveraged with AI, and it's incredible versus something that sucks and is obviously AI slop. Like, the damage that the damage that that can do to a brand early on, I think, is because it just looks lazy. That's what it looks like.

And if something looks lazy, especially in the financial world, why the hell would I ever trust putting capital into something that's looking lazy? Like, if you're if you're looking lazy in your brand and in your media, that suggests that you're also gonna be lazy with how you manage my money or how you keep it safe or, like, that's the psychological thing that happens, at least in my mind when I see that. Was saying

go ahead. No. I was just gonna say we're we're building brands. Right? Like, we're building user trust. If you're gonna put your money with Glider, we want you to feel like everything is safe. We have spent a lot of time and effort to, you know, safeguard everything about the system. So, yeah, I couldn't agree more.

I I would say I I kinda break this down when I think about this into into two categories. There's a side of using AI agentic tools for distribution. You know, you're seeing this wave right now. Sometimes volume is the name of the game. So how do you generate more volume? And I think where people go wrong is they assume that to generate more volume, you have to lean on to AI generated content.

When we lean on the baseline of your content, it should be you going on Sable Dash Live, and it should be you going on other podcasts. It could be you sitting down with your marketing person and just telling the story of of Glider for an hour. Those are the baseline of all those clips. What now what you're leaning into, though, is is distribution across various channels. I think the other side of it is the storytelling with your audience.

Do you have do you have users that you could interview that love Glider and love the experience and to help them get into investing? And that would lean into the side of, like, user generated content, or are there financial influencers that have an audience that they want people to build their portfolios around and and to and to follow. And so I think there's like, this is just from our experience even.

We have some people that come on Stable Ash Live, and they just rely on us solely for distribution, which is great. Like, obviously, that is what why people wanna come on the show. That's why we're building our brand. But the people that I see that really take advantage of it, they're like, hey. Can I get clips? Hey. Can I get the raw segment? And then I see them I see them this week. They they post a video, and then they post another one.

And then when they have a product announcement, they go back and they and then they post it again. Their their videos, the ones that they're posting get three, four, five times views because their community wants to hear from what the founder has to say. They don't necessarily want to go follow another brand. They care about that company specifically. Of course, there's a bunch of nuance. Is this a b to b brand? Is this a b to b to c brand? Do they have a token? I'll tell you this.

If you have a token, your content's gonna probably do a lot better anyways. So Yeah. Yeah. This is just you know, we're we're I was thinking, Zach, to this this example that you probably are thinking of. This was just

a live session that we did in Miami with Garrett from Altitude, and, like, they Altitude took this on their end and just made this, like, really slick marketing marketing video with Garrett.

So Beautiful. Yeah. We we're obviously nerding out on this because it's our world, but it's important I know if you I don't I don't know if you guys have played around with a lot of, like, the sort of, like, agentic design stuff too, like, design and and all the stuff, and it never lives up to the hype of their marketing. I I mean, I've I I criticized somebody recently because I was like, that's so clearly made with claw design.

And if we can still tell that it's made with some type of tool, I don't think that means we've gotten to where we need actual design tools to be.

To some you know, as I I think about this. I had this conversation with my friend yesterday who he, you know, he coaches he has a baseball organization in Texas. And he had been going down Claude code. And he's like, yeah. And it's funny. You know, I can see now all these flyers of the other teams, and and I can tell when they're AI generated.

And I do wonder though how much, like, we're in this echo chamber because we're so exposed to these design tools and using them and how much the other 95% of the population like, is this really just, like, raising the baseline? And at the end of the day, what the vast majority of people care about is, like, does it look good? And I don't even care if it looks similar because I just want it to look better than it used to be able to look.

Know, You I think about when you go around town and you find you see that flyer to somebody and you're like, it's a Word document. You know, it's like now their baseline's lowered. So I I I partially agree because, you know, when you're in an industry where you're raising $10.20, $30,000,000, like, you probably should be going hiring a designer and and standing out and breaking out of that bubble. On the other side, for the vast majority of SMBs, it's like, hey.

The at least this is this is better than what you had before. So, yeah, I think I think it's really industry specific.

Yeah.

We can we can turn the page on this. Sorry. I'll line another time. This is the the, yeah, go to market marketing

sales design. How do you okay. So bring it back to specifically what Glider is doing, let's unpack a little bit of the b to b side. So how does the difference here look? I mean, we've kind of, I think, covered a little bit of the Glider from a retail or consumer perspective. What does this now look like for, like, those who you said, like, the brokerages or the neo banks or these these kind of use cases that wanna unlock brokerage, portfolio management, vaults? Like, speak a little bit to that.

I think a lot of the people who we know personally and who are building and who watch this show or are connected to us are likely in the business of, like, building neobanks or building applications or trying to challenge incumbents in that way. We have some, you know, we have some traditional, like, champions in the, like, traditional financial space, but a lot of them are building with these tools and probably asking themselves, like, hey. How can we stand stay differentiated,

make our users more money? Like, what does that look like? Yeah. I'm looking at the bottom of this scrolling bar, and there's some names there that we we work with. So it's a couple people are already thinking about this. So the the way I think about this is that there are a ton of auto investing apps that exist in traditional finance. Right? We've got, like, the OG, like Wealthfront, Acorns, but then you have more modern ones like Autopilot, Alinea.

These are apps that automatically put your money into diversified portfolios, sometimes things that are tracking, like Nancy Pelosi or Warren Buffett or Thrive, you know, the venture firm founded by Jared Kushner. So these things exist. They all had to build in silos because they all had to have their own, like, licenses and registrations to be able to either manage assets or connect to traditional brokerages.

In this day and age, when things are on chain and permissionless, you can actually build that offering and offer it to everybody in a B2B fashion. And so I can say, hey. We've got the Nancy Pelosi tracker available to everybody around the world. You can hook this up to your neobank and offer it to your customers without any connection to a brokerage or, you know, KYC.

I mean, of course, you can KYC if you want, but that's that's the magic here now is now that we have permissionless open rails, you can port this thing in, offer a portfolio like the Nancy Pelosi tracker or, like, an ETF of health care stocks or automobile stocks or you name it. And that is a way for you to then monetize that investment like a traditional ETF would be monetized. So you can either charge, like, you know, 10 basis points, 50 basis points. You can charge on the rebalancing fees.

And then the magic of Glider that's a little bit different from a traditional ETF is that everything is non commingled and direct indexed. So you actually own all of the underlying stocks or crypto or bonds rather than holding some wrapped version of that. So you're not dealing with the liquidity of the wrapped token. You're dealing with the underlying liquidity of, you know, Netflix stock or Bitcoin or Solana.

And so what we see is that these are really sticky user experiences because you can offer an ETF on, let's say, Altitude or Artemis or Caste, and, your user has to then come back to your platform to access that portfolio. Right? It is now, like, a way for them to say, okay. I'm investing on this. I'm growing my wealth. The only place they can access it is by going back to your app. So it's creating user stickiness, which is much harder to come by these days in the world of just everybody's doing everything.

But when there's actually money parked in your applications in your neobanks, those are the places that people have to return to. And ultimately, that's the that's the number one priority

of that cohort is to get people incentivized to come back and stay top of mind and top of wallet. And you're kind of dancing around this a little bit, but speak to the, like, use case for stablecoins in this tokenization process. Like, you have the tokenized equities as, like, this killer app here for stablecoins. Bring us into, like, how you see stablecoins playing a role with these types of trades,

how they're connected, and what's happening under the hood here. Yeah. So there's there's sort of so many ways that stablecoin's poured into this. One, the obvious thing is that you can buy these portfolios with stablecoins. Right? So you have USDC. You say, oh, I wanna actually go buy an ETF of healthcare stocks. You buy that just like you would buy a stock, and that's great. The other thing that's interesting is there are portfolios that are diversified across stablecoins that might earn different types of yield.

And so you can hold things like like you just had Ben from Cap on. Right? So you can hold things like Cap USD that earn yield over time and diversify across those stablecoins if you want. So that's really the main ways that stablecoins come in. And then even a simple example, like, if you do wanna park USDC on Glider, it'll automatically accrue yield. So four to five, sometimes 6%. We're doing that through Morpho, Aave, Fluid right now, and those rates, of course, are variable.

But your money should be working for you twenty four seven. You know? If it can earn yield, it should be earning yield. And if assets can be sold or managed in the middle of the night, it should happen. And so those are a lot of the workflows that we're building towards on sort of the AI side as well. Cool.

Last thing that I know we wanted to touch on here that seems really unique is the kind of generational opportunity here of, like, the you know, we kind of we've we've gone through these really big cycles of, you know, the trading use cases of, like, what a Schwab has done versus a Robinhood versus a Cash App.

Like, these huge names that we we look to now that have been market defining or category defining companies have all had this, like, market tailwind that they've ridden, like the rise of p to p and mobile or under banks communities, like with Cash App, for example, is is maybe how I would define that. What are some of these tailwinds that you see related to stablecoins or otherwise that that you think Glider has, and what might look different about this opportunity versus others? Because there's a lot of buzz.

There's a lot of headlines. We are covering a lot of the stuff around the traditional incumbents and players who have won, who have distribution, you know, the Robin Hood chains. We were meeting with the Offchain Labs team about stuff like that, and that's really cool. But something that I think we going back to Zach, I think what has inspired Zach and I specifically with, like, the m zero team is something just, like, thinking about them.

And as as I say this, like, there's such a passion for, like, who will be who who will be the next podium holders that we don't know about yet Mhmm. Who are challenging the incumbents that even appear innovative. Like, Robinhood, in some ways, has like, they're gonna continue to innovate. Coinbase is gonna continue to innovate. All the companies that have headlines will continue to innovate, but there seems to be a new horizon for the taking.

Speak speak a little bit to to that. Yeah. I mean, I think the the massive tailwinds that we see. Right? We see stablecoin growth being absolutely exponential. We are now seeing tokenized equities being absolutely exponential as well. There's gonna have to be a way to manage these assets, And it's not gonna happen in your Phantom wallet or MetaMask wallet. Like, you're not managing millions of dollars of on chain stocks in those hot wallets.

And if we look at certain things like how far we've come and how far we have to go, I'll give you an example. Ondo, for example, what, two weeks ago, they crossed 1,000,000,000 TVL in on chain stocks. Just two days ago, they're at 1,500,000,000. 1,000,000,000 is only 0.002% of the entire US equity market. Like, it is tiny. We're we're talking peanuts, and the graph already looks super exponential. It's all crazier.

When I think about the incumbents here, when I think about Coinbase and Robinhood, they're great, but you have to realize they are geographically constrained. Right? They are operating in Europe and The US pretty much solely as their two biggest markets. Permissionless assets and where we see the most demand is people like in Asia or South America or Africa to get access to these assets that they don't otherwise have.

And not only that, it's like, we will be able to offer these and give more incentives around what these investments can do because they are permissionless. They are directly owned by the user. When you think about direct ownership, there's no middleman. And so, you know, when Robinhood is offering tokenized stocks, I hope they're permissionless. That's one thing.

But you have to imagine that they have layers of compliance and legal and, you know, all these other things that bake into the overall cost of executing on those platforms. Whereas if it's a permissionless open system, you don't have those. And so that's why permissionless systems will win in the end is that there is open opportunity to cut out these middlemen fees. So, yeah, I'm thinking about the rest of the world. Robinhood and Coinbase are thinking about US and Europe. That's that's sort of the play here. Sure.

I'm just popping up the the stocks, the glider.fi. Looks like I'm just I'm playing around with this for the first time. Any any, like, key things you wanna call out here or demo that are new or recent looking here at the at the dashboard itself? Anything that Yeah. Would be fun to explore with the next couple minutes before we close?

Yeah. So we have a couple interesting campaigns. If you scroll up to the top here and you go, like, yeah, click this guy. So what's interesting about this is we've got, okay, a 156 users. This is the second time we've run a campaign like this. This is an ETF that is earning about 15% APR. Give it a second to load there. It'll pop up. It's calculating what the APR is live. And this is on top of your ETF. So this is an ETF of Bitcoin, ETH, XRP, MEGA, and SOL.

And so if you wanted to hold these positions normally, that's great. But we've now incentivized it with an additional now 15% APR. What's gonna be really interesting is that we're going to be launching a MAG seven ETF very soon, and that MAG seven ETF will also be accruing additional yield. So back to what I said earlier, would you rather hold the MAX seven, or would you hold the MAX seven ETF with 5% yield? You'd probably wanna hold the MAX seven ETF with 5% yield.

So these are things that can only be done on chain because yields can accrue automatically. It can grow and can't be done by the likes of Robinhood or Coinbase. And, yeah, you've got a whole bunch of different portfolios there. We'll be offering more catered portfolios, as I mentioned, around, like, Nancy Pelosi now that we have stocks live. The guy who did situational awareness, Leopold, who, you know, his fund has been taking off, Thrive Capital, Warren Buffett, Berkshire Hathaway Holdings.

These are all things that have done incredibly well in traditional finance, but have only been accessible to US users. Now they're gonna be accessible to a global audience,

and that's really exciting to us. That's so interesting. Love where this is going. Love the flexibility of this and sort of the multiple flavors that it can take. It seems like something that is really open to anyone. If I'm someone who just wants to participate in this, I can go have a pretty easy, a beautiful, delightful, simple product experience to do so as a retail investor.

But there's also, like, for the neobanks, like we've mentioned, or the companies building with the desire to bring users back to the platform, give them the tools they need to grow their wealth. I think we're entering this really, really exciting phase of, like, the token the tokenization of investable assets and how those things can really create stickiness and and value and accrue value to those users.

We have you're just now starting to enter that moment, it seems like, where, like, stablecoins really, even in the narrative sense, have really been focused on, like, cross border payments and dollar access and these really fundamental primitives of, like, dollars, and that's all really great. But knowing what I know about markets, like, the the function that they play in markets and modern markets for even just what you're saying.

Like, holding these things in this form will get you will will will be able to give give you potential earnings on the underlying collateral. Like, I remember sitting with my grandpa years and years and years ago. My grandpa was, like, giving me investing advice, and he's, a day trader still. He's 93. He's, like you know, I can picture his, like, Schwab terminal up, and he's, like, CNBC is on, like, volume 90. Like, he this is him.

He's giving me advice on, like, how to pick stocks and what matters, and the thing he really valued was dividends. Find stocks that have good dividends. Buy long. And it's like, even that paradigm is so it's similar, but so foundationally different than this, but it's, like, serving a very, very similar purpose. This is a really cool example of a a new primitive that would not be possible before tokenization.

So it's exciting stuff. I almost opened up a can of worms. I was gonna just ask, like, what way and what what do we do with stocks that pay dividends that are now on chain? Like, can you program those dividends? Like, what what does that cycle go to? Is it is it just is it is it, you know, compounding? Are you buying more of that? Are you allocating it to your portfolio? Is it going into maybe just a high yield savings account?

You know, you think about the people that are saying, I'm gonna build a dividend portfolio and live off of that. Is that working with with a card that goes and just starts paying their bills? You know? Yep. 100%. Maybe that's part two of the

all of your money should be working for you twenty four seven. Right? If you want to sell your dividends every time you receive them, if you want to reinvest them because you can buy, you know, decimalized amounts of stocks on chain, it's very easy. So that's truly programmable money. That's the world we're moving into. And, you know, stablecoins, for what it's worth, are the crux and start of all of that. And that's how we get from, you know, in and out of assets. I still think stablecoins are the dominant pairs.

Right? You're not gonna be trading Netflix to Tesla. You're gonna be trading Netflix into USDC into Tesla. So the stablecoin is still gonna be the dominant pair across all of these assets. It might be

euros or some other, you know, local currency, but stablecoins are gonna be the basis for everything. So the stablecoin sandwich is different now. It's less cross border payments, more cross portfolio or cross tokenized asset. It's like a similar flow, but you're using a a shared stablecoin to bridge tokenized equities or, like, it's an interesting an interesting way to think about it. So, Brian, this has been fun, man.

Would love to, you know, have you back on, keep diving into this as you have more of these use cases, specifically maybe especially if you have exciting things with some of our friends of the show or people that we're familiar with. Like, we love to bring companies like this to life through highlighting use cases.

Like, so if, you know, Altitude does some cool stuff or Cast does some cool stuff, whatever that might look like, like, let us know, and we can help show, not tell, what gliders are doing behind the scenes. That could be fun.

Absolutely. Yeah. We'd we'd love to show what the b to b world looks like. There's a lot more coming, so I won't give too many secrets away, but we have a lot cooking.

Awesome.

For coming on, Brian. Thanks for the time, man. Have a good one. Thank you, guys.