# Moto defines its truly wealthy card members as those spending more than $10,000 per month Neo, a Stabledash show. Sep 25, 2026. Shimon Newman. https://live.stabledash.com/shows/neo/episodes/what-moto-learned-building-a-credit-card-for-people-who-Z-J_X3J9tag Four months into beta, Moto's CEO says rich members care less about cashback and more about not feeling taken advantage of, and the company is dropping crypto from its pitch to go after Amex Black. Moto co-founder and CEO Shimon Newman says the onchain credit card company uses a simple test for who counts as truly wealthy: do you regularly spend more than $10,000 per month. Moto is about four months into an extended beta, and Newman says it has a strong group of very wealthy members, all brought in through word of mouth and referrals with no paid marketing. ## What the wealthy actually want Newman says Moto first thought about spending tiers and was fine with members who spend 3 to 4 k, but the beta brought in very wealthy people he did not know personally. He compares the $10,000 threshold with Amex's average spending, which he puts at $2,000 per month. Interest on deposits and cashback, he says, appeal to the aspirationally wealthy, while the needs of the truly wealthy are very different. One question kept coming up in interviews: why am I paying an FX fee. Newman says wealthy members "don't mind spending a lot of money, but they don't wanna feel taken advantage of," so Moto subsidizes FX through a zero FX program it built with Rain and Visa. He says onchain FX cannot fix the problem, because a card on a US issuer BIN settles in US dollars, and names Ether.Fi as the only neobank he knows of with native euro to euro payments in the EU. ## Beyond crypto, still on Solana The new Moto website, designed by Properly Studios, does not show crypto anywhere, as the company aims to go head to head with Atlas and Amex Black. Newman says crypto whales tried Moto first and then onboarded non-crypto people with money through referrals. Moto still runs on Solana infrastructure to monetize float in ways traditional payments cannot. ## Real credit, cashback from yield Newman says Moto extends real credit: it borrows from the onchain facility Credit Coop and prefunds members' transactions. Interest earned on deposits goes mainly back into cashback, because people prefer the instant gratification of cashback. He says Moto is not trying to be a full neobank but the ultimate place to spend. ## Staying out of the cashback war Newman describes a hyperfragmentation of fintech as barriers to entry have gone to zero. He says Cast, Ether.Fi, Plasma and Peanut, which offers 101% cash back, are in a contest over "who can burn VC money," noting that Cast just raised 80 mil. He would never outsource smart contract development, pointing to AI-assisted bad actors and this year's exploits. Newman says Moto's real value is getting very rich people to trust it with their spending data in 2026, and it is building its own data pipeline. Card preorders for existing members are coming soon, with open membership applications to follow, and he says Moto will leave beta a lot sooner than people think. ## Key takeaways 1. Moto counts a member as truly wealthy if they regularly spend more than $10,000 per month, while Shimon Newman puts Amex's average at about $2,000. 2. Moto has spent about four months in an extended beta and has grown only through word of mouth and referrals, with no paid marketing. 3. Newman calls the neobank cashback race a war of attrition and says Moto will compete with private banking instead. ## Chapters - 0:00 Moto has spent four months in beta, growing only by referral - 2:34 Truly wealthy users want different things than early plans assumed - 6:11 New website drops crypto branding to compete with Amex Black - 9:16 Moto offers real credit funded by an on-chain credit facility - 12:51 Cashback wars between crypto neobanks are a war of attrition - 18:01 Zero FX fees are table stakes for a luxury card - 21:34 Rapid-fire build-versus-buy lessons favor owning data and smart contracts - 26:31 Card preorders and open applications are coming soon ## Transcript **Host** (0:00) Value transfer is nothing new. Hunt, gather, trade, expand. An exchange that's older than instant. The strongest prevail and the fastest survive. The function remains as its form continues to accelerate **Zach Hughes** (0:24) forward. **Drew Rogers** (0:45) How are you doing, Shimon? Good to see you, man. Hey. How's it going? It's great to be here again. **Zach Hughes** (0:51) 100%. Have you back on line, man. I was telling Drew earlier I was excited today. You know, Olivia was a... It was her second time coming on. I think this is your second time on the live show, third time being interviewed by us. You especially, I think we first talked to you either right around the time you raised your pre seed round that we talked to you right around when you were opening up. Was it alpha or even, like, pre bay... Like, really early beta? Like Yeah. Yeah. You know, slowly scaling, now we're we're getting to follow you along every every few months, do a check-in. So kinda bring us into the fold right now. What's happened since the last time, you know, we've sat down with you, and and where's Moto at today? Yeah. **Shimon Newman** (1:29) You... You've definitely been a part of the the Moto journey from from day one, and we've we've come a long way since the last time that we talked. We're about four months roughly into our extended test beta. We've learned a lot about, you know, the needs of the wealthy, and we're very happy today to say that we have a strong cohort of very wealthy people that trust Moto with their spending. And, you know, that that trust has been acquired through word-of-mouth and and referrals, no paid marketing. So, yeah, you know, I I was I was looking at some of my earlier interviews with you today. It is kinda cool to see some of the thesis play out how we really hoped it would and, of course, some things that are vastly different from, you know, how we thought things would go. But, yeah, just excited to be here, and thanks for being on. Yeah. Let's just start there. What are... We have the new website queued up. We can kinda walk through that when it make when it makes sense. But, like, what are some of these things that were not... Maybe things you thought that have changed **Drew Rogers** (2:34) that have... What... What's what's evolved in your mind around how you think about Moto and what you're building lately? Yeah. So, you know, Moto was this bet that a a **Shimon Newman** (2:44) rel... The... I think one of the most underfunded neobanks could somehow, you know, do luxury better than a very saturated market. And that was a big bet. Right? And I think that when we started Moto, you know, and we were thinking about tiers. We were thinking, you know, let's... We still want kind of, you know, people who spend a lot, but we're okay with some people that have, you know, spend between 3 to 4 k, and we can Mhmm. Create different, you know, ways to monetize. And then we started this test beta, and we actually started getting, you know, very wealthy people that I didn't know personally interested in Moto and and using it. And, you know, we've just learned a lot that what people that have a lot of liquid capital, what what they want or demand from a a premier credit card was just so different from, you know, what I would have thought. I mean, I'm... It's not like... You know, I I make a lot less than most Moto users. You know? So I had I had assumptions of what, you know, rich people would really want out of a card experience. And through, you know, dozens of customer interviews, we're really excited about, you know, where Moto's headed and what we need to do to to to capture this market. What what do those customer interviews look like? And has there been anything maybe in the past two weeks of doing them that has surprised you? Yeah. I mean, Moto's been live for four months, so I think that, you know, we're not getting so many surprises now, more just like trends. And, you know, I I think that the most interesting thing is people who really care about things like interest on deposits and even cashback are, like, the aspirationally wealthy. And that doesn't mean that they don't have money. Right? But they're trying... They have money that they're trying to grow, which is by virtue of that fact, that's kind of why they want cash back, or that's why they want some interest on deposits. And, you know, the the needs of the the truly wealthy are are very different. And, you know, given given that this is indeed such a saturated market, I don't know how much sauce or my learnings I'll really spill right now. But Would you say generally. Say, like, aspirational... **Drew Rogers** (4:57) When you when you use the word aspirationally wealthy, are we in the, like, assets on platform range of, like, 6 figures versus those who might have 7 figures or more on the platform are more in this, like, other camp in your mind? Like, how do you bucket them? Yeah. I mean, at Moto, we have a a pretty simple metric. **Shimon Newman** (5:15) Right? It's do you regularly spend more than $10,000 per month? Right? If if if you can if you can spend more than $10,000 per month, we assume that you're highly, highly liquid. Right? And so, you know, aspirationally wealthy people can have a lot of money. Right? But it's people who can do this kind of conspicuous consumption or conspicuous spending that's really above... You know, for for reference, Amex's average spending is, I think, $2,000 per month. Right? So, yeah, you know, we have many, many users that meet this criteria for what we would describe as truly, you know, wealthy. But, yeah, we're just talking in money terms. Of course, you know, wealth is much more than just money. But, yeah, in terms of that's a business and how we think about capturing this market, that's how we define it. Yeah. It's awesome. Seems like a lot of, at least in our neck of the woods, wives who like to go to Costco with their families would probably increase the the likelihood. At least that's that's how it feels for me lately. **Drew Rogers** (6:11) I'm gonna I'm gonna pop up the the new website. I was scrolling through it. It looks awesome. Talk a little bit about this and the new vision for how you're positioning Moto visually. I think as as we've been following the early early innings of the company, it's just been so awesome. **Shimon Newman** (6:29) Man. Drew is a fanboy. Like I would dare to say... I'm a fanboy. I would dare to say the most beautifully designed credit card, like, chain neobank I've seen. I'll put that stake in the ground. I think Moto's absolutely beautiful. So walk us through this a little bit. Well, thank you so much for the kind ones. It's, you know, it's mutual. I I I... I'm such a big fan of of you guys, and I think you're really elevating this space. And, yeah, I I feel very akin to to how you guys think about taste and messaging. But, yeah, you know, this is a sneak peek. This isn't live yet. But for those viewers that are tuning in, you know, the... You're really the first publicly to see this, and it's not a... It's not the full website either. **Drew Rogers** (7:09) I love this part. This is my favorite part, the rotating card with... **Shimon Newman** (7:13) I love this part. Yeah. That part is really sick. Shout out, yeah, shout out Properly Studios. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. There there are there are, you know, partners in prime and all things design, and would recommend them to really anyone in crypto and beyond. But, yeah, you know, if you're if you're scrolling through this website, one thing that you'll notice is you don't see crypto anywhere. Right? And, you know, that's that's where Moto is is headed. And even if we we get kind of annoyed at this point looking at our current website, you know, lots of people love our website, and thank you for everyone that compliments it, but it's still, you know, very cyberpunk. And that is how Moto started. Right? You know, Moto's name comes from Satoshi Nakamoto. Right? And this was really great for starting Moto. And, you know, when when I was thinking about my edge, you know, and, you know, distribution is king. Right? I didn't think I could get, let's say, normie rich people at first. Right? But I felt pretty confident I could get some crypto whales trying Moto. And then through invite only, through referrals, these crypto whales have now onboarded non crypto people with money. Right? And now we get to see what their needs are and how they want to, you know, have their spending handled, right, and what they expect out of a luxury credit card. And so, yeah, Moto is really excited to still rely on Internet financial infrastructure on Solana and and still taking advantage of ways to make money and to to to monetize floats that otherwise could not be done in the traditional payments world. But we're really focused on using that kind of economic wheelhouse to power a truly luxurious experience for people in crypto and beyond. So we're really excited about moving beyond the crypto TAM and putting **Drew Rogers** (8:58) our stake in the ground and trying to go head to head with companies like Atlas and Amex Black. So you guys... The way the way you've architected this... Like, again, if you're listening to this live, go back and listen to the first... Especially the first podcast we did in Abu Dhabi. That was great. I think you dove a lot into how this was architected, how you thought about the stablecoin, the ability to, like, give economics back in the float period or the repayment period versus, like, every credit card functionally being a real debit card on chain. Like, maybe maybe give a bit of a a bit of an overview summary of how you've architected this. Something we're exploring in Neo powered by Dakota is the... Like, a lot of the infrastructure decision making and differences around those things because ultimately, a lot of it's gonna be what makes a lot of these products unique and different. So we'd love for we'd love for you to help us understand some of these design choices that give Moto a competitive edge in your mind. Yeah. Such a great question. So as you mentioned, **Shimon Newman** (9:57) all other... Well, now there's some new players, so, you know, I don't wanna say something that isn't factually true anymore. But when Moto started, there were no on chain credit cards. So all on chain cards were functionally debit cards or loan cards. So you're either immediately being debited for some money or you're taking a loan against some crypto collateral. And and broadly speaking, that's how the majority of on chain cards still work today. So with Moto, we actually extend you credit. We borrow from a on chain credit facility, our mutual friends at CreditCoop. And... Yeah. Is it CreditCoop or CreditCoop? I should probably know this. CreditCoop. CreditCoop. Okay. CreditCoop. CreditCoop. My bad, Chris, if you're watching this. But but, yeah, you know, we borrow from CreditCoop, and we basically prefund users' transactions. So users are not being debited. They're not selling anything or anything like that. And at the end of the month, we debit them, and we, yeah, pay back our our credit facility. So with us, what we do is right now, we are still evaluating partners. I think, you know, the last time that we talked was right after the the Drift fallout, and at the time, we were considering integrating a certain partner, but we were worried because they were single venue, and that single venue ended up being Drift. And so our worries and our, you know, hesitation of integration ended up being definitely the right call. And so we're pretty scared of DeFi right now. So... But we are in the process of finalizing our RWA partner. And what that means is that Moto earns interest on all deposits, and we do this throughout the entire thirty day period. So to put it simply, if you load up the Moto card with a 100 k and then you spend a 100 k in the background, Moto is still being able to, on chain, generate interest with those assets, And we use that now to primarily funnel back into cashback. Because as I mentioned before, yield on deposits or interest on deposits is nice, but people do prefer, let's say, the instant gratification **Zach Hughes** (11:58) of a cashback experience out of a card. Yeah. You know, I don't think Moto... You know, Moto, at least at this point, we're not trying to become a neobank in the sense of manage your entire account from Moto. Right? We think that that's a very, very saturated market, but we do wanna become the ultimate place to spend. I I like that that that that paradigm of it's... You're okay with people having multiple accounts. Like, this is your spending account. I even think of the way that, you know, me and my wife choose to manage our finances. And, yeah, this is the account that, you know, saves, and there's the emergency fund, and this is the place where they go to spend. I'm I'm curious, you know, about what you were saying with the the design choices around, you know, around around yield. So is this in the realms of thinking through stablecoin issuance yourself? Is this integrating, you know, yield partners? You know, we've seen kinda like this, you know, the volification **Shimon Newman** (12:51) trend. Is it is it both? Yeah. That that that's a great question. And, you know, just just before that, I wanted to touch on something that you brought up, which is that right now what we're experiencing is a hyperfragmentation of fintech. Right? It... Because the the relative costs and vary... The previous barriers to entry from productizing or trying to monetize float yourself has kind of gone to zero. So, you know, it's... I don't think Moto would have been able to raise if we didn't start last year. You know? I saw this opportunity and left squads for it. But at this point, I'm sure, as you guys know, there's, like, three new crypto neobanks every day. Right? And every... You know, I I I won't be I won't be surprised when Starbucks issues its rain card. You know? So I think, you know, all that stuff is really coming. Right? But what that also means is if everyone is trying to be the super app, and they're all trying to convince you to, like, hey. Spend your money with us instead. It it actually... It diverts attention. Right? And so if we can just nail being the easiest and best card to spend with and making it as easy as possible wherever your wealth is. Right? Because that's the other thing as well. You know? I I think that right now, we're trying to compete more with the private banking relationship at... Than anything else. Right? Because private banking used to be highly localized. Right? Or, you know, at least regional. Right? You go to your local JPMorgan or whatever. Right? And you open up a private bank account, and they charge a ton of money and don't really give you so much. You leveraging things like AI, we can get the same concierge experiences or whatever that you would get from JPMorgan, and we can actually... We're not gonna charge you, you know, 10% on whatever assets you give us. Right? The other thing is wealth is now global. Right? It's it's on exchanges. It's in stablecoins. It's in wallets. It's in... So it's it's... You know, it's in Robinhood. Right? So if we can nail wherever your wealth is, you wanna spend it on Moto, I think we win. And so good luck to everyone that's, you know, trying to vampire attack each other, but it's it's really, you know... I I wrote an article about this. This is a war of attrition, and it's not one Moto really wants to play with. But, yeah, just just to, yeah, circle back to the, you know, the question about How design you how would you define that that term? It's more of attrition. What do you mean by that? Yeah. Actually, I I wrote an article about this on X. I think it's pinned if anyone wants to go check it out. But right now, where we're at in the market is... Yeah. There it is. Wow. You you really are good at what you do. So... Yeah. So, you know, basically, where we're at right now is we've got really, really well funded crypto neobanks, some of them profitable, some of them not. Right? You know? So on the profitable already side, you've got CAST. You you know, you've got EtherFi. And then, you know, on the other side, you have Plasma, which has this huge treasury. Right? And all of them have the rewards to kind of outcompete each other. And it's it's really funny to me on the sidelines a little bit. Right? Because it's like, I think a couple weeks ago or maybe it was last week, Plasma did this campaign, like, preorder GTA six, and we'll give you 10% off. And then within four hours, EtherFi goes, preorder GTA six, and we'll give you 20% off. And next thing you know, it's like you have the most random neobanks coming out of the woods saying, hey. Order on us, and we'll give you 50% off. You know? And even if you look even if you look at things like TUYO, their buy now, pay maybe, I think there's new one Peanut that's doing a 101% cash back. Right? You know, the the... It's really... It's like, who can burn VC money? You know? I said, I'm I'm I'm not gonna lie. You know? Moto, we're a pre seed company, and we're also burning VC money with cash back. Right? But it can't be the endgame. And, yeah, I think that right now, I think a lot of neobanks are just gonna kinda be dragged down trying to play this game that they don't have the money to play. Right? Like, Task just raised 80 mil. Right? Like, you don't have 80 mil in the bank... And I think I think I just read from the CEO today that they barely touched that fresh funding. Right? So if you don't have, like, you know, close to 80 mil liquid, don't try to compete with cast on, you know, hatchback for a large market. You know? I mean, with Moto, we're more curated, and we don't have... You know, we we do really great numbers, but we're not trying to, you know, get to the unbanked. You know? So, yeah, I just think that it's a very hypercompetitive market. And if you don't have a differentiation outside of, you know, just raw money, right, you... Maybe you will win for a little bit, but you probably won't make it past this year. Yeah. It's such a refreshing take, and it's not that I don't resonate **Zach Hughes** (17:28) with the neobank founders who wanna bank the unbanked. But like I said, I think it's it's it's inspiring to know, like, hey. This is our customer. This is the customer we want. We're not willing to compromise and kinda go outside. I was even talking to Terab from Movement. They just were involved with the launch of a of a neobank. Hassab focusing in Afghanistan, very much leaning into the self custodial aspect because, hey. This country floats in and out of, you know, being on the no go list. So we want users there to be able to custody their funds. And, it's like, hey. This... We know who we're serving with this with this neobank. One thing I I did see on the site that I wanna kinda, what's your take on Forex fees right now among neobanks? I see this is another thing we see all the time on crypto, Twitter that I would say next to cashback seems to be what people are somewhat trying to compete on compete on. Is this, again, is this just like when you are a luxury client, the expectation would be that it's frictionless, it's easy to spend, don't have to worry about forex fees, or, yeah, what's your thought on on this product feature specifically? **Shimon Newman** (18:32) Yeah. I I I think that zero FX fees are table stakes for a luxury card. I I don't necessarily know if that's true for, like, global neobanks or or global cards, but, certainly, people who spend more than 10,000 per month don't want there to be any FX fees. And I guess, you know, from Moto's perspective, one of the things that we've learned about really wealthy people is they don't mind spending a lot of money, but they don't wanna feel taken advantage of. Right? It's like, whatever whatever your membership fee, you know, you know, give it to me. But don't introduce a hidden fee, or or don't try to get me somewhere. You know? And it's it's not to say that we were trying to do that, but it was just, you know, when we started onboarding, you know, these really wealthy users from these user interviews, it was just... It just kept on coming up. Like, why am I paying an FX fee? Right? And so we actually Where did that come up come up in the flow? Like, what does that mean specifically? Where where was that pain happening? So, yeah, I think... So there there there are more zero FX cards out there, and I think they all handle them this differently. We worked directly with RAIN and Visa to implement our zero FX program, and I think we were one of the the the first to do so. But, basically, like, when you make any transaction on most cards, I think, like, CAST has them. I think Plasma still has FX fees. Most cards are issued on top of Visa. Right? Yep. Or... And most cards are are, you know, also on top of RAIN. And so RAIN has a US BIN, basically. Right? And so a US BIN means that you are gonna be charged in dollars. Right? And, you know, there... There's some companies that have figured, you know, ways to get around this. Like, I think, to my knowledge, EtherFi is the only one, to my knowledge, that that has figured out native, like, euro c, like, circles euro to euro payments in the EU. And I don't believe that they pay the FX on that either. But, you know, right now, Moto, we subsidize the FX because it's just... It's... It is an expectation of of our clientele. In the future, yeah, the... I mean, the the solution to this problem, right, has to do with the issuer more than any... Like, on chain FX won't solve this. Right? Like, even if you were to swap from USDC into, like, Swiss francs or or whatever currency, if the BIN of the issuer is a US BIN, it's gonna be settled in in US dollars, and you will pay the Visa exchange fee or the Mastercard exchange fee. And that's the other thing that's interesting, that there's a difference between the true FX rate and what Visa or Mastercard will charge, and it also varies the risk associated with the merchant category code. So, yeah, that's a... It's a whole lot of technical jargon, I guess, but Yeah. You know, the the the way to address this is to own the infrastructure increasingly, and, you know, that's kind of what has... You know, that's what Moto has to do over time. Well, I love that you brought that up because I was actually gonna hit you with **Zach Hughes** (21:34) a few rapid fire questions. I have five of them that we're that we're implementing as kind of the the wrap up to this new segment. I will say just one thing I thought of, though. If you're building a luxury card that encourages travel, I think it makes a whole lot of sense to not hit them with Forex fees. Like, hey, guys. I'm gonna make it easier for you to go travel, and then I'm gonna hit you with a bunch bunch of Forex fees afterwards. It's like, yeah. I could definitely see how that feels like a bit of a gotcha. But, yeah, Shimon, if you don't mind, I'm gonna hit you with a few... I don't... I wouldn't say one word, but try to keep these maybe to one sentence, and we'll just kinda roll through these. And if maybe at the end, if there's any, hey. I actually want to unpack this a lot more, then we can circle back to that. So first one, what's the one thing you built in house that you'd buy today if you could? Our concierge and our customer support. What's the one thing you bought that you wish you'd built? Man, **Shimon Newman** (22:24) I, like, I wish I wish Fable was around before we paid a bunch of legal fees. I'll say that. **Zach Hughes** (22:31) Which vendor would you rip out tomorrow if switching costs were zero? You don't have to name the vendor, but if you wanna name the overarching function. **Shimon Newman** (22:38) Yeah. That's we work with so many partners. I'm not gonna answer that one. I think I think that, you know, I mean, the the answer is is if we could be free, we'd rip out everything. Right? So I think... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's the single build or buy decision you'd redo if you started over today? That's an interesting one. I I would actually say the CRM. Right? Like, the **Drew Rogers** (23:01) customer Like, user management. Management. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I would You would buy it or you'd build it? I would build it. We bought we bought ours. I would definitely... If I could do this all again. And that... And that's such a sticky sticky product. I think especially with AI, it's like building your custom one exactly how you need it. I would I would actually agree there. Invest your time there. What tools, Shimon, exist to just go... Sorry. I'm I'm I'm ruining the rapid of this rapid fire. But what what tools would be utilized to go build this in house, or or is that even... We're going back to buy again. **Shimon Newman** (23:33) Would this actually be, like, a completely native data management tool in your mind? Yeah. I mean, like, I guess what I would say... I'll just talk about Moto's case. Right? The the the real value of Moto, whether you wanna talk about right now or what Moto will become ten years from now, is that in 2026, we are managing to get very rich people to trust us with their money and their spending behavior. And this data lake is invaluable as it continues to grow. And so, yeah, we are in the process of building our own pipeline, which, you know, I guess in the neobank context, you probably do wanna just plug in to spend data. If you're a private, stablecoin product, good luck. You know? I just think that's really funny when, like, you know, these cards, you know, they they don't know anything about users' transactions. Like, hey. But then how are you gonna know what they want? You know? And I think that users want to **Zach Hughes** (24:28) feel known. You know? And I think that that's... Like I said, we're trying to replace the private banking relationship. Again, not a bank, but we work, you know, with with some content providers, and we work with one that, again, they're they're seed stage. We have a Slack channel, and I've seen them probably implement five to 10 features that I directly requested, some within less than twenty four hours. Like, there's nothing that can create loyalty like that type of customer service. Absolutely. Absolutely. Last question. What is the one layer a neobank should never outsource? **Shimon Newman** (24:58) I would say smart contract development. I think that... We talked about this last time I was on the show, but, you know, if if you if you don't think North Korea or other bad actors don't have access to, like, Fable seven, you know, you're you're smoking crack. You know? Like, all this Western stuff of limiting AI's potential, that... That's not gonna happen. And I already think that's why we're seeing so many records of exploits this year. Right? So Yeah. Yeah. You know? Sorry to sorry to dev shops. I mean, know, but I wouldn't, you know, outsource critical smart contract work to anyone. And, you know, yeah, I guess the same thing odd, like, go get audited. You know? Yeah. **Zach Hughes** (25:40) Well, we had a we had Ade from Sub Zero last week, and he was he was diving really deep into... With Drew and Zach Hughes into the... This... The idea of how AI is slowly poisoning some code bases. Just, you know, like, just little little attacks just just over time. And that was just... I know it was... I I wasn't on the stream. Zach and... Other Zach and Drew were, and it was... That was a little bit of a mind mind blowing moment and kinda gives you that little bit of little bit of fud, you know, a little bit of fear, uncertainty. Yeah. What's happening to... What... What's happening is to some of these, like, AI agent things that I'm I'm, like, tinkering on the side. You know? Yeah. No. For sure. I think that to Pandora's box that that has been opened, and however secure you think you are, you're you're probably not secure. And, **Shimon Newman** (26:25) you know, I think that's where Moto is continuously investing its time and energy as well. It's awesome. Awesome. Shimon, when is the site going live? Is this, like, next week, you think? Later coming days? Yeah. So, I mean, there... There's a lot of really exciting things in the pipeline. I guess I'll I'll leave that. Yeah. I'll give on this note. New website, card preorders are going live really soon for our existing members, and soon, anyone will be able to apply for Moto membership. So we're gonna get out of beta a lot sooner than you think. So, yeah, everything's totally new. Oh, you have no idea. This is our old this is our old UI as well. Yeah. We we have a totally new... For people that use Moto already, they love our app, but, you know, they're not gonna believe the new one. Yeah. I think I think that, you know, Moto story is just beginning, and it's really great to premiere kind of the first taste of our new direction with you guys. Yeah. As I always say Need to get all the alpha. So let's go. We need we need we need to get a StableDash **Drew Rogers** (27:27) invite code for the real ones who are listening live is what we really need. We'll make that happen. We'll make that happen. Shimon I'll Shimon, thanks for this, man. You're always welcome. It's fun to watch watch the journey unfold. Appreciate your time. And thanks for giving us one of our time. Much. Well, yeah, it's my honor. Appreciate you guys.